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Tao MADE ME DO IT! - Sanora Sunrise Chrysocolla

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Author Topic: Tao MADE ME DO IT! - Sanora Sunrise Chrysocolla  (Read 4130 times)
theimage1
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« on: September 10, 2008, 08:42:08 pm »

Ok, I saw Tao's pix and decided to buy a couple of pieces of rough too. I managed to walk by them when I was at Quartzsite, but I began to covet them once I saw Tao's recent pix. So I admit it, HE made me do it.  (At least that's what I explained to my wife!)   The other one is on the saw now.






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Taogem
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 12:03:52 am »

How large was this one Ron?

You got a lot of Azurite in yours, and from here, I don't see any fractures at all.

I don't know what size the slabs are, but what awesome cabs looks like could get if positioned so as to get all three colors on each cab.

Once you get a few beauties out of these and maybe make your Wife a nice pendant from it, she will likely say.... "Hey, what else did that Tao guy say he had good luck with"  ;D

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theimage1
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 12:15:18 pm »

Bbout 1/3 of slabs have a small fracture i the red area, most of the rest a pretty clean.
As to size ... 2x3+ to about 3x4


There is going to be more variety in slabs coming from the next piece, it's larger and has more bands and colors.
Preview ...



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theimage1
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2008, 10:19:09 pm »

Ok, here is the second rock hot of off the saw. I bought this one because it had some unusual blue lines in part of it. Turns out the blue lines contained very fine blue crystals.


Single slab with fine blue line near top


Closeup (micro image) of line ...


They look too dark to be actual chrysocolla crystals, so I have no idea what they are but they are pretty. Too small to be of any value in a cab. Nice under the scope. My good camera is busy elsewhere so I used my trusty old Nikon 4500 for the micro image.



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trb
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2008, 10:29:34 pm »

Beautiful slabs, the colors are incredible! Did you buy the rough from a source online?
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2008, 12:49:25 am »

It is really too bad that those same intense colors are not seen in any significant cabbing area.   

YI think you made out pretty good with that piece of rough. Really nice looking slabs.

You have green areas that the piece I have does not.

This may be a good time to straighten out my perception of what Chrysocolla is.

It is a mineral to itself, correct? Yet I have for what ever reason been thinking that examples like these are a mix of Azurite, Cuprite, and what ever the black area is. Then too some metallic veins.  By the way when you get to polishing this, you will see the metallic veins.

Maybe I am half right? These examples do have actual Chrysocolla within them (or at least the seller believes), but mixed with the others.

If Chrysocolla is a crystal then in reality there is little true Chrysocolla within the Sanora Sunrise. Not that it matters greatly, because it is a pretty group of minerals.

Maybe I should simply ask....... What part of this Sanora Sunrise makes it more Chrysocolla than a mix of Azurite, Cuprite and others?

Sometimes I think I tend to ID some of my cabs as Chrysocolla when they really look like a mix of the above mentioned.









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Lavenderfish
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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2008, 09:49:55 am »

Are those metallic veins galena?  ???

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theimage1
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2008, 08:04:03 pm »

Lavender ...
I believe the gray-metallic material is likely hematite or tenorite and not galena. It does not appear to be heavy enough. Tenorite is another copper oxide material chemically similar to cuprite, but different structure. Tenorite is CuO, whereas cuprite is Cu2O.

trb ...
The rough came from good old E-Bay. They came from a dealer called ... lacasadecobre, and yes they a bit pricey but nice material. Average about $10/lb. I saw it for that much and more in Quartzsite in January.

Tao ...
The mineral chrysocolla is actually a hydrated copper silicate. And yes it does posses a true crystal shape but it is  rarely seen. What we (as lapidary people) usually see and call chrysocolla is actually the copper silicate entrapped in chalcedony. It's basically a form of crypto crystalline quartz with the blue to blue green color we all like. The small blue crystals I see maybe aruichalcite (A zinc/cu carbonate hydrate) ----  Malachite is a pure cu carbonate hydrate, as is azurite, but neither forms the small acicular blue colored crystals that I see in the vein. The blue is about correct for azurite, but it tends to form a different crystal structure.  I ca't find anyone who has done a true chemical analysis of the Sonora Sunrise thus far, but it it is said to come from a copper mine. Thus anything mentioned here might be in there.
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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 09:27:31 pm »

I tell ya.... The closing prices are getting way up there.

I was outbid twice today on three chunks.

One 5 pounder that started at about 50.00 closed at 80+

Another 6.5 pounder closed at about the same.

I finally had to pay 40.00 for a 3 pounder. Plus the 10.00 shipping.

After cabbing the little that I did, sorta became more partial to the Cuprite part of this rough. So this last piece I won is solid orange.


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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2008, 07:54:21 pm »

Ron,

How is the cabbing coming along with this for you?

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theimage1
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 09:22:00 pm »

Cab? Who's got time for that right now? I'm reformatting pages in my book, taking more pix, have a meeting with a publisher next week up in Maryland, followed by a photo training class I'm teaching in Virginia over that week end, and this weekend I'm playing in the NC senior games in table tennis. My partner and I lost a close one in the finals today, and ended up with the silver metal in our age group in doubles. We play in singles tomorrow.

Who has time to cab right now? That sounds more like a winter indoor sport. I try to keep the saw running when I'm at home but that's about it for the foreseeable future.

I'm about 3 hours west of home right now in a motel. Will return home tomorrow night.


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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2008, 02:48:41 am »

Wow Ron.

You do have a lot going on for sure.

I have a feeling it won't be long and your book will be on my desk. Seems like you might be at least a little excited as you get more and more accomplished.

Very exciting  :)

Good luck in the singles tomorrow, and congrats on todays silver  :)

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Lavenderfish
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2008, 07:41:50 am »

Sounds like you're bouncing around like one of your ping pong balls doing all of that  ;)

Best of luck in your singles game! Or should it be "break a paddle"?
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theimage1
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2008, 07:26:59 pm »

Thank goodness it's over. I think I will sleep late tomorrow. I lost in the semifinals, which was probably a good thing for me,  as the guy I would have played in the finals is the "winningist player" in the USA this year. He'd have et-me-up and spit-me-out!

Now I have to get things together, so I can get on the road on Wednesday for Maryland and Virginia. I think I'll be happy when next week rolls around, and I have finished my current round of obligations. This retirement stuff is getting to be too much work!

Gas is really tough where we are now, lines run up to an hour to get at a pump and there are only a few that even have it. The good news is that about an hour's drive east it is easily available, and I hear there are no problems in Virginia and Maryland. Seems it's just here in the south. Reminds me of the good old 1970's all over again. I was in graduate school n Texas back then, and we were buying gas for between $0.16 - $0.18 a gallon, and then a year later we paid whatever we had to and stood in line to get it.

I have some Utah Fancy jasper on the saw, but it has thus far been a bit of a disappointment. It's been pretty much vuggy with lots of pockets in it, and only moderately nice color. Will post some up when I get them finished in the next day or so.

---------------
Update: If I could read a calendar I would be dangerous! My trip up north is not UNTIL next week. A one week reprieve!



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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 09:23:07 pm »



After cabbing the little that I did, sorta became more partial to the Cuprite part of this rough. So this last piece I won is solid orange.



Just thought would share the last piece I bought. It's about three pounds.


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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2008, 06:19:57 am »

It's almost florescent !!

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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2008, 08:25:37 pm »



Who has time to cab right now? That sounds more like a winter indoor sport.


Hi Ron....

With winter setting in, perhaps you will be gearing up for 'winter sports" soon ?   

Curious if you will have better luck with polishing of this Sanora.

Mine turned out a-ok, but would be nice if it had a little better gloss to it.

Maybe it is just the material. Not so much a problem with the Azurite area, but the Cuprite.

I had a customer comment about it today too, so looking forward to see how you make out with it once the season sets in for such a winter sport..  ;D



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theimage1
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2008, 09:40:34 pm »

I won't get back to cabbing until late February or early March, then I plan to start with some new designs. I can use some sunrise in those.

Looks like I will head out to Quartzsite sometime around the 13th of January, (takes four days to drive out), then stay for about a week until the Pow Wow is over, on to Pasadena for a week (waiting for Tucson to start), then on to Tucson for 9 days, then it gets a bit sketchy.  I have to wait for my wife to tell me how I finish the trip, before the drive home. She usually wants to go to Las Vegas for a few days and then drive home with me. I won't be back in NC until late February.

Looks like I will teach a one week course in composite cabs at William Holland starting on July 5th. The week before I will do a class in close-up digital photography.
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2008, 10:33:12 pm »



Looks like I will teach a one week course in composite cabs at William Holland starting on July 5th. The week before I will do a class in close-up digital photography.

Holland will be fortunate to have you. That is really something Ron!

Your schedule sounds most excellent. Sure wish I was in a position to be able and do the same.

Quarzsite...... Still crossing my fingers. Just seems like every time a get a few dollars ahead, I end up spending them.





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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2009, 09:56:00 pm »

Thinking about picking up a little more of this Sanora Chrysocolla. Thumbing through some of the posts we shared about it.

Having just a little more experience with it via the first couple of pieces, plus looking back through this particular post helps me think about what to look for in my next purchase.
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« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2009, 01:36:56 pm »

Had to pick up another chuck of this.. Came today..

This time I opted for a mix of all three, Azurite, Tenorite, and Cuprite minerals instead of just the Cuprite like last go round..

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« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2009, 09:07:29 am »

Well very disappointed in both the material and seller this time.

The first cut off the end just fell apart because was so badly fractured. Cut another slice and it too is badly fractured.

Have sent two requests to the seller for a refund. No response. I have purchased twice before so just assumed it would be the same quality.

Have been forced to file a PayPal complaint.. Just sucks..



Think I need a new blade ?  :)


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Bluesssman
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« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2009, 10:23:54 am »

That is a shame, George. Sad when you find a seller who does not want to make his customers happy. A very quick way to lose good customers!!!


Gary
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wywyrd
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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2009, 11:49:30 am »

George who was the seller?
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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2009, 02:03:08 pm »

George who was the seller?

I am going to wait to say until they either decide to respond to the PayPal inquiry for a refund or not..

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wywyrd
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« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2009, 09:56:20 pm »

Ehh ok ... I just wouldnt want to waste my time with a merchant like that anyway since it appears the guy had to know it was junk
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« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2009, 12:34:44 am »

Ehh ok ... I just wouldnt want to waste my time with a merchant like that anyway since it appears the guy had to know it was junk

I am not so convinced that he did know it was junk. He has a excellent feedback history and I have purchased twice before.

I finally heard back from them just a few minutes ago. Offered me the refund with me sending it back. Since I had not heard back from him for a couple of days, did not know what to think.

Any hooo.... About an hour ago, decided to take a chance and slice a bit more off in hopes that further in it might be less fractured. This was going to be entirely on me as could not expect him to take it back if I sliced a bunch off. So took the chance and is in the saw as I type.

I let him know the same just now... Will know more here in a bit. I would much rather be able to start cabbing some of this even though it may only yield 1/2 to 3/4 of the rough. Disappointing but plenty to still make a good profit.

What ever happens, at least he finally did respond. Thats a start and feel much better.. Will know more a bit later.

Then with some luck maybe I can brag him up rather than be negative about the whole thing..

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akansan
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« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2009, 09:23:54 am »

I have always felt sellers could not be held responsible for rough that ends up being horribly fractured on the inside.  If the outside of the rough shows evidence the piece is going to fall apart, that's one thing.  But if it's only evident once you've started cutting into the rough, that's on you.  In some ways, it's like holding a seller responsible if the inside of the rough isn't as nice as evidenced on the outside.  I know quite a few people who will only purchase faced rough because of this. 
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2010, 10:08:14 pm »

Lavender ...
I believe the gray-metallic material is likely hematite or tenorite and not galena. It does not appear to be heavy enough. Tenorite is another copper oxide material chemically similar to cuprite, but different structure. Tenorite is CuO, whereas cuprite is Cu2O.

trb ...
The rough came from good old E-Bay. They came from a dealer called ... lacasadecobre, and yes they a bit pricey but nice material. Average about $10/lb. I saw it for that much and more in Quartzsite in January.

Tao ...
The mineral chrysocolla is actually a hydrated copper silicate. And yes it does posses a true crystal shape but it is  rarely seen. What we (as lapidary people) usually see and call chrysocolla is actually the copper silicate entrapped in chalcedony. It's basically a form of crypto crystalline quartz with the blue to blue green color we all like. The small blue crystals I see maybe aruichalcite (A zinc/cu carbonate hydrate) ----  Malachite is a pure cu carbonate hydrate, as is azurite, but neither forms the small acicular blue colored crystals that I see in the vein. The blue is about correct for azurite, but it tends to form a different crystal structure.  I ca't find anyone who has done a true chemical analysis of the Sonora Sunrise thus far, but it it is said to come from a copper mine. Thus anything mentioned here might be in there.

Ron... Would you and or anyone else have any idea why this Sanora would have a weird reaction to liver of sulfur. It is dissolving when exposed to it.  The stone was in the setting when the liver of sulfer was applied.

I just sent a message to the designer to find out if all three colored areas are reacting. Azurite, Cuprite, and Tenorite..

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stonesthatrock
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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2010, 09:19:49 am »

hello ron,
good to see your still alive...  we will be in quartzsite again this yr. with tony....  This time its the FRONT ROW   ura 

ralph and mary ann
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theimage1
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« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2010, 11:43:46 am »

I can think of only one thing that might cause it ... if the Liver of Sulfur got acidified, then it would also have some sulfuric and/or sulfurous acid present, I think the acid would likely attack any carbonate and likely some of the oxides too.  Tenorite is simply CuO and Cuprite is Cu2O.  Of the two I would think the Curite would be the more soluble as the Cu+1 state of copper would rather become the more stable Cu+2.

One of the tests for tenorite is put a drop of acid on the mineral and then scratch it with an iron (fe not galvanized) nail. It should plate a little copper on the nail. The acid dissolves a little of the Cu to make a salt, and the iron reduces the Cu ion to Cu metal.

Malachite i well known for bad reactions around acid, and will often lose it's polish if put in contact with acetic acid (as in vinegar). It's possible to damage malachite with oil and vinegar salad dressing. Since Sonora Sunrise is a mix of Cu containing compounds I would think it would be quite susceptible to any acid treatments.

That would be my guess. Personally I would probably not use any acid based metal treatments on jewelry containing any metal oxides or carbonates. (OK, if you consider Si to be a metal, then silicates are the exception.) The use of acids on both types of compounds is known as "meta leaching" and is one of he prime methods of separating metals for refining.
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« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2010, 02:47:11 pm »

Thank you very much Ron ....

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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2010, 05:36:40 pm »

The first pic shows the stone in a finished setting. Notice the change in color within the Azurite (blue) area. Actually added green and redish colors look beautiful !



The color has continued to change, probably from chems soaked into the stone. 
It has gotten darker and also lost the little bit of polish that I had put onto it the second time.  Still kinda cool though

This second pic showing the deteroration is a bit out of focus..  Looks pretty dramatic actually..

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thewrightthings
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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2010, 10:02:26 pm »

George, did you make that pendant?  It's beautiful.  For someone who claimed to be new at this metalsmithing, you have come a very long way.  I am so totally impressed.
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« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2010, 10:49:25 pm »

George, did you make that pendant?  It's beautiful. 

I wish !

No.. Michael Johnson of Cosmic Folklore does this beautiful work. He pops in here from time to tme..

Here is his Cosmic Folklore site.
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thewrightthings
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« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2010, 07:29:23 am »


I wish !
Here is his Cosmic Folklore site.

Wish I had a friend like that who would just pop in and create gorgeous stuff, or show me how. 
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« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2011, 06:56:11 pm »

It is really too bad that those same intense colors are not seen in any significant cabbing area.   

YI think you made out pretty good with that piece of rough. Really nice looking slabs.

You have green areas that the piece I have does not.

This may be a good time to straighten out my perception of what Chrysocolla is.

It is a mineral to itself, correct? Yet I have for what ever reason been thinking that examples like these are a mix of Azurite, Cuprite, and what ever the black area is. Then too some metallic veins.  By the way when you get to polishing this, you will see the metallic veins.

Maybe I am half right? These examples do have actual Chrysocolla within them (or at least the seller believes), but mixed with the others.

If Chrysocolla is a crystal then in reality there is little true Chrysocolla within the Sanora Sunrise. Not that it matters greatly, because it is a pretty group of minerals.

Maybe I should simply ask....... What part of this Sanora Sunrise makes it more Chrysocolla than a mix of Azurite, Cuprite and others?

Sometimes I think I tend to ID some of my cabs as Chrysocolla when they really look like a mix of the above mentioned.


yes chrysocolla is a mineral unto itself.  it is a very pretty light blue.   Think of gem silica which is chrysocolla in chalcedony.

the black, I believe is tenorite.      (Google knows all)  lol
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Stay healthy in 2011.  .  .  . and don't forget to eat some dark chocolate!

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MrsWTownsend
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« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2011, 05:10:26 am »

I just love that stuff!
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