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Fishy busines 3D practice by a beginner (pics reloaded)

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asianfire
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« on: May 15, 2011, 02:57:53 am »

Finally I will make the jump into the cold water and instead of just carving some clueless lines and hoping that is somehow looks reasonable, I will attempt some simple 3D work on a chosen design.

I have been thinking about it for ages, it seems, but always put it off for some reason.

So this weekend, I decided to finally get started choosing designs (4 of them) and then choose the two simpler ones for preforms.



Now in order to ensue that I'm not giving up too quickly dunno (I reallllly do not like loosing chuckle), I thought the best motivator would be by posting the stages as I get along.

For better or worse, some info might be useful for other aspirants too.

The D-Fish is 45mm (tail to front fin) 38mm tall 27mm wide

The Dolpin is 42mm tall and 33mm wide at max extend


The tools used so far are in order from bottoms up. The main-tool that I found most useful (just found that in the market a few days ago) is the double-sided bit (hence magnification). Its way more expensive than the regular ones, but well worth it. One change for next time though; it needs a shorter pin, to make it more stable (its quite heavy, so it does put quite some strain on the pin).


As always, at any stage as I get along, I gladly invite anyone to comment and/or clarify as to what could be improved.

Thanks for looking, and any help you can render,......

Now, the hard part begins, getting depth.....  thinking13



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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 06:26:48 am »

I am loving this thread already. Love the designs, the fish looks like a Koi.
And the stones you  chose to make them out of is perfect.
Thanks for showing the carving tools too:)
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 06:34:41 am »

Fantastic.  I have been thinking about carving myself, but still cold feet.  Where did you get all your disks, especially the one you magnified?  I will be looking forward to your next post.
Good Luck!
Annette
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 09:07:01 am »

 yes Alright............this is going to be a wonderful thread........I'm hoping that this turns into somewhat of a tutorial with step-by-step additions as you go along................ ura
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2011, 11:36:15 am »

Oh yes!!!  yes  That dolphin one is going to come out nice!!! I can see it already!!!
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 01:48:26 pm »

You are providing a great opportunity for all of us, who aspire to carve stones, to learn from someone who has created some amazing work.  Can't wait to see those pieces develop.  Thanks for the tutorials.
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 05:55:53 pm »

Hey Kurt, the green ones are stone bits right?  I must need more coffee because my eyes want me to think it might be craytek...
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 08:18:14 pm »

Hey Kurt, the green ones are stone bits right?  I must need more coffee because my eyes want me to think it might be craytek...

Number one and 3 (top to bottom) are grinding wheels. Some sort of Silica compounded. As you know I buy by sight as there is hardly ever someone around to speak to me, so I can not give you a proper name for  them. I would estimate that number one is around 150 to two hundred grid, and number three is below one hundred (80 maybe?).
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2011, 09:46:56 pm »

Hey Kurt, the green ones are stone bits right?  I must need more coffee because my eyes want me to think it might be craytek...

Number one and 3 (top to bottom) are grinding wheels. Some sort of Silica compounded. As you know I buy by sight as there is hardly ever someone around to speak to me, so I can not give you a proper name for  them. I would estimate that number one is around 150 to two hundred grid, and number three is below one hundred (80 maybe?).

Thanks~ I know it as "the green ones" if that makes you feel any better...  I have green, pink and white, they vary by coarseness and that's all I know.  lol
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 03:34:33 am »

I'm hoping that this turns into somewhat of a tutorial with step-by-step additions as you go along

Steve that's the idea for better or worse. So everyone can see; what not to do :)  toofunny11

But it will take a while as it is the end of the school-year for me, by the end of this month. So there is a lot of paperwork, corrections and evaluations. Even the "Agate Board" for the school still awaits creation. I'm thinking of possibly getting it ready for next month as the kids will still be there for another month.

In any case, I promised myself to do an hour a day.  walker

First order of business is lifting the Dolphin and some features of the fish from the background. I want the eyes and the mouth of the fish to stand out and not just be outlined so I got to remove material around it plus giving the fins some sort of movement is still something that I ponder about. I can imagine how it should look like in different scenarios, but it will be different for every fin.

The one thing that I can not yet imagine is as to how I should pose the dolphin; "Side view" or "top view".
The marked spot could be an eye or a blowhole. The top fin would need minimal adjustment, but the side-fin would be very different.

 help
What do you all think is better: the Dolphin turning in front of the seaweed or swimming across? help
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 06:05:10 am »

Good morning everyone,

Now is the stage where I would like to throw the towel (that's the reason for this thread).  saved2
Having announced the project, its hard to pull out. chuckle

First you outline the shape you want, then you cut the form only to completely take it apart again.
This is the stage where nothing seems really right or close to what one has on mind.


But normally its exactly from here where things are going to improve.

Have removed material to expose areas that have to stand out and tried to give preliminary high and low points. Just need to keep on mind Mikes words "you can not replace something that you removed".

Still would like to get some votes/oppinions for the dolphins position: Do you think it would look better seeing the dolphin from the side or from top? Once this is decided, he will take shape quickly
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2011, 06:14:00 am »

The design is in your head and heart. You go with what they are telling you.
I am loving this. I love seeing these pieces start to develop into some wonderful.
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2011, 07:44:30 am »

I would stay with the game-plan and do it like in the original drawing.  I think that it will turn out great!!! yes
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2011, 11:38:56 am »

Since you are having so much trouble deciding you must like them both.  So how about a compromise, looking at it from 45 degrees - neither top nor front, but average.  ????
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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 11:50:10 am »

They both are already very cool looking ALREADY!!!

Kurt, what do you do to keep the rock and bits lubricated while you cut?
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2011, 03:57:07 pm »

Since you are having so much trouble deciding you must like them both.  So how about a compromise, looking at it from 45 degrees - neither top nor front, but average.  ????

Yikes,..... possible now I got even more to choose from. hide chuckle

Kurt, what do you do to keep the rock and bits lubricated while you cut?

In the moment, nothing more than regular tips in water. Later when cleaning up with more expensive bits, I usually tip the bits in olive oil on regular base (it's more about keeping the surface clean than avoiding overheating).
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2011, 04:57:00 am »

Finally, I can see the dolphin without markers, from here on its going to be fun.

Tools till here: same as posted before, plus 230 Grid paper to see where the deep (miss-) cuts are.



Next: Fine -tune the shape, add some features, sand all the way, apply features and texture and finish up.



Thanks for looking and have a great day.
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2011, 08:54:43 am »

Yes Flipper is coming alive right before our very eyes.
Thank you Kurt for sharing of your talent:)
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2011, 06:40:05 pm »

Kurt, that's beginning to shape up nicely!  You're doing a great job.  Can't wait to see your next steps.   dancer5
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2011, 10:35:00 pm »

Kurt, those carvings are looking wonderful.  You do have quite a knack for that sort of thing. 
Am looking forward to the next photos.
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2011, 10:26:14 pm »

Looking good Kurt. Doing things in a flattened 3d can be challenging. Like the fins that you would think of sticking out quite a bit. But the constraints of the amount of material to work with. Forces a flattened foreshortening. Just keep turning & looking & it'll all come together. Little by little don't get too ambitios on the cuts. You can always deepen a cut. But once it's too deep it's there for always. Work from your highest points back in the releaf.
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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2011, 04:08:47 am »

Shaping turned out a little more complicated than anticipated and is quite directional.

Since the last post, the dolphin had to loose at least twenty pounds from his under-belly, then the tail-fin needed to be lifted from the background and the torsal fin needed to become more curved and lifted from the leaf in the back-ground.

At the same time, the leaf had to be thinned out (vertically) to give it a different color appearance and thinned (horizontally) to make the fins stand out more.

Did not sand the leaf to give it further difference appearance.

Other than that, sanding paper used to get to the state in the picture: up to 600 Grid.

Shaping tools are in the attached picture. Sorry no order, as I took everything and anything from the box as I saw fit at the time.

Next Polishing it up in the next post.

[attachment deleted by admin]
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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2011, 04:19:37 am »

Doing things in a flattened 3d can be challenging. Like the fins that you would think of sticking out quite a bit. But the constraints of the amount of material to work with. Forces a flattened foreshortening. Just keep turning & looking & it'll all come together. Little by little don't get too ambitious on the cuts. You can always deepen a cut. But once it's too deep it's there for always. Work from your highest points back in the releaf.Mike

You are certainly right on that one. Experience, I suppose ??  saved4

Thats one of the reasons that I have not yet touched the fish. The fin at the back is scary. I can not yet imagine how to cut it to make it stand out. I have decided to use the fish as an unfinished example for my school-board in the meantime. By the time I take it down, I hope to be ready for it.

I had a day off today, I took my time, I re-polished the Dolphin 7 times, as every time I thought I'm done, I found something to adjust.  roar
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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2011, 06:50:22 am »

After several rounds (7) of shaping polishing and reshaping again, that's it for the time being.

While I think its not too bad for a start, it would not hold up to close scrutiny yet.
I did not put an eye or mouth, as I feel that that would create even more directionality. Lets call it "less is more" for this case. I'm still wondering about roughening the leaf to get more contrast. But this will have to wait as this piece will be included in the school-board too tomorrow.

Polishing was done the usual way:
Sanding-paper to 2000 grid
The picture shows tools for "rough" Silicone paste on top (Bamboo barbeque stick for tight spaces is missing) 
The lower row shows the ones used for the 50K diamond paste followed by leather and finally for cleaning up.
As I do not know the names for the silicone powders I included an inset showing the packages (maybe the numbers give you the info that I don't have).


Till here for now, until the next time when I will try to go into more detail suitable for closeups (turns, twists and other optical illusions that I come along).

Baby-steps: the journey has but started, hope to never see the end of it,...........

Thanks for bearing with me and your support, on this rather mundane journey thus far........



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« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2011, 07:04:37 am »

very cool! Ambitious too! I like the idea of seeing the nearest  dolphin from the top and the one behind it from the side. A twisting top view of a dolphin would be hard for me personally without some sort of model. With some animal carvings Ive done Ive actually found VRML models online. In fact I just found a dolphin (http://www.ibiblio.org/e-notes/VRML/blaxxun/dolphin.wrl) and had to download and install the newest Cosmo player to view the model in firefox or IE (http://cic.nist.gov/vrml/cosmo/CosmoPlayer.zip). Then you can pose it how you want to see it, maybe do a screen capture and paste into a graphics application.....er..

 Youre probably doing fine just like you are :)

Somehow I missed what kind of materials youre using for these.

Theyre gonna be great!
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2011, 07:11:14 am »

Kurt, Flipper is wonderful. I can see him swimming thru the seaweed in my mind's eyes.
This is not a basic carving project. You have to have some natural talent to even get this far.
Even when I try to cut out a simple flat bird it dont look like a bird:)
I am really enjoying your skills and your journey:)
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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2011, 07:14:39 am »

Somehow I missed what kind of materials youre using for these.

Sorry about that, I never mentioned that the Dolphin is Amethyst Sage and the fish is Polka Dot.


BTW: Cool application, will have to try that in the future.
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« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2011, 07:25:13 am »

Shaping turned out a little more complicated than anticipated and is quite directional.

Since the last post, the dolphin had to loose at least twenty pounds from his under-belly, then the tail-fin needed to be lifted from the background and the torsal fin needed to become more curved



Turned out good! yes In your description above, you sound like a "plastic-surgeon" from Beverly hills..... chuckle

Now, I got to start doing that too.... I can stand to loose 20 or more pounds from my under-belly! saved2
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« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2011, 08:30:21 am »

Kurt, I think it looks great!  Don't even know if you really need to put an eye and mouth on it, as you can tell what it is by the shape.  You are really getting good at this!  Bravo!   yippie
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« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2011, 09:01:56 am »

Thanks everyone,  yippie

The fun part is that, I can try new things without really having to succeed.
So, when something turns out presentable, it's pure "steroids" to make it the start of a new attempt.


Even when I try to cut out a simple flat bird it dont look like a bird:)
I am really enjoying your skills and your journey:)

Thank you. Just keep trying and stay positive about any outcome. Results will come!

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« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2011, 09:30:07 am »

I admire your tenacity and patients for undertaking this challenge.  Your minds eye has a depth perception that is really superior and your skills at putting that to fruition are remarkable.  I commend you on your accomplishment with the dolphin.  You are getting better and better as you hone your skills................. KUDOS..........and the best part is that your are having fun doing it.  Thank you for the step-by-step postings and looking forward to watching the coy advance.
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« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2011, 10:08:43 am »

 Great work man!!    Amazing!! 
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« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2012, 07:59:19 am »

Kirk, I really enjoy following your threads. I am unable to see your photo's, all of your attachments have been deleted for some reason. Its hard for me to comprehend without seeing.
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« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2012, 08:34:46 am »

Its a very old thread and pictures at the time where still uploaded directly to the forum. From time to time; the admin has to create space for new pictures, as space costs a lot of money. Thats why we are reminded from time to time to upload pictures via outside providers the like of Flicker or Photobucket and/or to donate towards a found to pay for the upkeep.

Remind me by Saturday and I will reload the pics through Photobucket.

Best regards, Kurt

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« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2012, 10:55:10 pm »

OK, so here are the final pictures:

Dolphin which has found a new home with Hellen


And the Koi


Plus what Amanda did with it




Greetings and best regards, Kurt
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« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2012, 09:51:23 am »

Your carvings are always so interesting to me Kurt.
But when you sent that Koi to Amanda for her finishing design, Wow, that one takes my breath away. It is awe inspiring.
Great job to two great designs:)
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« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2012, 03:35:07 pm »

 clapper clapper clapper yes yes yes
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« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2012, 06:42:28 pm »

Kurt, thanks for re-posting pictures, and tools that you used. The Dolphin and Koi  are absolutely amazing !
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« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2012, 05:51:49 am »

Thanks for reloading those pictures Kurt! I usually try to avoid deleting pics on sticky threads, but mistakes do happen...  hide
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« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2012, 06:36:57 am »

No problem Aaron.

Don't worry about it.
Thanks for all your efforts keeping the site up!  hatsoff
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« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2012, 06:47:40 am »

 hatsoff    hatsoff    hatsoff

Bravo Kurt and Aaron.
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« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2012, 09:29:01 pm »

The more and more I look around I cant stop finding so many works of art. The bead work with the koi is incredible!  yes
First time I had the oppurtunity to see the skull guitar also. Rock and Roll all night long :)
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« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2012, 07:53:19 pm »

Oh kewl!!! I didn't see this thread til you bumped it Todd:).

I got the dolphins:P. They are BEAUTIFUL, and I also got Kurt's incredibly symbolic yin/yang, which is a phenomenally creative piece, as well as some cabs too (I got seriously spoiled in that trade:))!!! Kurt really is very very talented, and it's amazing that he does it with a hand tool and no grinders or laps or anything!!! The stone was very hard and dense, and the design was just perfect!! Kurt is and has always been quite a marvel... has anyone seen Kurt's fire agate work? Just amazing too!!
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« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2012, 09:45:37 pm »

Kurt, I am soooooo far behind on the board posts.  Wow the fish and dophins turned out amazing.  All your work is truely beautiful.
Amanda's beadwork fits that carving so well.  Sure does look good.
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« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2012, 02:02:56 am »

Ahw Paula, you are always using such kind words. We enjoy our hobby, so we make small advances every time we try. That's all.

But yes, Amanda's work is amazing. yes

I thought you are already in Marocco. Have a fantastic trip and be save.  hugs32
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wyrock
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« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2012, 11:36:34 am »

Somehow I missed the finished pieces. Kurt you have done it again with over the top work and design. I do not know how you can say that I am a carver equal to you. You are way above and beyond. Thanks for sharing.
Jim
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Rockrangers
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« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2012, 12:37:57 pm »

Wow! never saw the dolphins until today.
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« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2012, 05:32:08 pm »

I do not know how you can say that I am a carver equal to you.

Jim you are too kind, but you know that the grass is always greener on the other side.  dunno

That's the fantastic thing here at the forum:
While we got a few people doing the same thing really,
everyone manages to be still very different in their own way.
It looks like, everyone here has his/her own style and with that there is no real competition. I find that great. Without competing against each-other, there is only learning from each-other. It allows us to envy someones else's skill without hindering our own progress. Take the ten carvers here and give them the same task; I bet you that, where as in other similar places most people would copy each-other, here our lot comes up with at least 8 very different outcomes.

Nearly all of us are self-learned. We hold on to similar ideals, yet we are not bound to them and that makes all the above possible.

So yes, I think you are a better carver than me; and I hope and pray that that will never change! hugs32
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helens
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« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2012, 06:27:43 pm »

Oh a bit of competition makes everyone drive a bit harder to do a bit better... least that's how I see it:). I mean I would NOT be good at glass at all if I wasn't DRIVEN to get technically better faster to win some competitions (and get more materials). But I can see also that some people would not go for that too. I have a bad habit of spending more time thinking before doing, and sometimes competition propels me into doing... far faster than I would have otherwise with no direct motivation or inspiration.

The other thing that's wonderful about a competition, especially an honestly judged one by impartial 3rd parties is that you get a sense of customer trends. WHY does someone like that better? For some, people who never sell their art, their art need only appeal to themselves, who cares whether anyone thinks it's nice or not? For others, who sell their products, that market study is critical to their own success in the marketplace.

You will find that in any group, where there's no comparative judgement, the comments are often very related to personal like or dislike of a PERSON, not the art itself. Ie., I like so and so, so I'm going to say nice things to encourage them! I'd never buy that, but I want them to make them feel good for trying! And harming that person in the long run, because they may attempt to make it in a marketplace with a product that isn't yet ready for sale.

However, personal popularity is going to sell absolutely nothing on ebay (at least until you build up a following), where the only thing that is going to move sales is quality, price, and taste/trends. So while it's very helpful to a hobbyist to be surrounded with caring supportive people, it's a false reflection of the marketplace for a product and its related skillset. And for those in the market, or wishing to enter the competitive market, competition is very important in establishing a different type of confidence.... along the lines of 'can I give up my day job' because my art is good enough to get people to spend their money on it?

So I guess for hobbyists, competition may be a bad thing (except to determine where the actual 'professional' bar is set), but I think for current artists, it's a great gauge of where you are in the relative market.

AND, I'd say that every single carver here on the forum ARE good technically enough to sell commercially, so a contest would be not judging skill, but judging taste, and that's an interesting thing to see!!

I mean even the cab contest, how many entries are BAD? None. But 1 wins... not because the other entries were not good or unworthy, but because people had different tastes. Does anyone lose the Cab contest and actually feel that their cabbing ability was unappreciated?

That said, I LOVE the dophins:)!!!!

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« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2014, 02:01:44 pm »

Holy smokes Amanda, that is some fantastic bead work and a great carving also.  yes
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« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2015, 06:03:23 am »

The design is in your head and heart. You go with what they are telling you.
I am loving this. I love seeing these pieces start to develop into some wonderful.


I agree, follow your heart and artistic eye.  Thanks for allowing us to peek in on you as you take this on.
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« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2015, 06:30:48 am »

I agree, follow your heart and artistic eye.  Thanks for allowing us to peek in on you as you take this on.

Its always the fun part. Things might fall apart from time to time, but salvaging things and bringing any project to an end, is the best teacher than no money can buy. AND if you got fun with it along the way, even better!
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I shut my eyes in order to see ~ Gauguin
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When you realize there is nothing lacking - the whole world belongs to you ~ Lao Tzu
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Personal website introduction.      brilliantchallenge.webs.com/


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