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Borax

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Author Topic: Borax  (Read 1051 times)
RoyKims
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« on: April 24, 2011, 09:16:45 pm »

i've read that borax will work as a rust inhibitor. has anyone used it ?? i'm trying it but would like some other feedback..
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 06:41:57 am »

I just started this weekend.  I had read the same thing and since I have a tile saw that uses water any rust protection would be welcomed!
I also have notices from the way the water flows and the rock cuts that it is a better lubricant than soap too.  With steel bolts and cast iron vice it won't take too long to find out!
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DonniesTreasures
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 06:59:11 am »

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
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RoyKims
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 12:21:54 pm »

how much per gallon are you using. i used about 3tpso a 1/2 gallon and noticed a little rust on the blade after about 36 hours..
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 02:20:40 pm »

Oh darn,  didnot measure by the gallon :(
I mix a 5 gal pail.  takes 2 1/2 to 3 gal to get going. (10" tile saw)  Probably about 1/2 cup or so in 5 gal.
Takes a while to mix in, might have been some in the bottom of the bucket still.

I was showing a touch of rust on vice but non on blade when I was using soap.  Hoping the Borax will prevent that from getting any worse!
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Bentiron
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 02:34:43 pm »

Is this the "20 Mule Team Borax" or something else?
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 03:05:15 pm »

Is this the "20 Mule Team Borax" or something else?

Yup - the same stuff.  cheap but effective laundry aid (among other things)
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2011, 06:50:58 pm »

OK, Same stuff that a blacksmith uses for flux to make a forge weld.
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RoyKims
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 06:56:14 pm »

mine is a labeled for insect control and listed as 99% borax. ''Borid'' , 1% inert ingredient.. borax seems to be a wonder mineral as it's used for so many things..
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RoyKims
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2011, 06:57:26 pm »

OK, Same stuff that a blacksmith uses for flux to make a forge weld.
same flux for silver also..
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2011, 09:59:10 am »

OK, Same stuff that a blacksmith uses for flux to make a forge weld.
same flux for silver also..

Oh ya  I used it with bailing wire to torch weld sheet metal (and bullet holes on truck bodies)  the stuff is cheap and works great!  (don't ask about the bullet holes  LOL)
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2011, 05:00:52 pm »

Yeah , the stuff for bugs if fine too for a flux, some of it has less additives that others so read the label, kills bugs better than many of the poisons on the market and if you put a band of it around the house bugs don't even cross it to get in the first place. Works great  here in Southern Arizona.
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2011, 06:16:21 pm »

Well, I been cuttin rock for the past two days with my little ole 7" tile saw & I put some of my muleteam borax in the water.  Yippee!   yippie  Definitely made a difference.  Of course I always empty it out anyway because I always make a huge mess.  I just put a small scoop in the bottom, add the water & go to town.  I always keep the hose in the well of the saw on trickle so the water doesn't get low so the borax water does start to get diluted & I can tell when that happens.  Rather than add more borax I take that as my signal to quit,  otherwise I'll just keep cutting until it gets dark & I am pooped.  Definitely did help,  wasn't fussin as much about the agates this time!  So, can somebody educate me on the flux stuff, please? 
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2011, 06:33:56 pm »

I've got to try this with my little 'Rock Rascal' 6'er............. some of the stuff I've been cutting lately is hard as a rock and takes forever.....................  bricks
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RoyKims
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2011, 07:24:10 pm »

So, can somebody educate me on the flux stuff, please? 
mix with alcohol or water to form a paste or thick liquid. use as flux.  i got a couple of kits at the welding shop of 56%silver solder and the flux is the same blue the borax makes.. go figure.
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2011, 12:36:30 pm »

So, can somebody educate me on the flux stuff, please? 
mix with alcohol or water to form a paste or thick liquid. use as flux.  i got a couple of kits at the welding shop of 56%silver solder and the flux is the same blue the borax makes.. go figure.

Never thought of adding water or anything.  I just heated the wire a bit and stuck it into the borax. It would cling right on to the wire and then melt into the welding area and flow beautifully. 
I'll have to try that next time I need to weld and see how it works.

Regarding bug killer - is it borax?  I knew that Boric Acid was bug killer but never heard anyone mention borax before.
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RoyKims
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2011, 08:42:10 pm »

Quote
Regarding bug killer - is it borax?  I knew that Boric Acid was bug killer but never heard anyone mention borax before.

AHH, that's why i'm getting different results. borax?--no, this is boric acid..
thanks
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2011, 04:57:39 pm »

Per Wikipedia "In the jewelry industry, boric acid is often used in combination with denatured alcohol to reduce surface oxidation and firescale from forming on metals during annealing and soldering operations." So there you go, the dope on the use of boric acid  as a flux in jewelry making. I used to have a big cone of it shaped something like an old sugar cone. I just scrape some off of the side and mix it with the alcohol but then I got smart and just started buying Handy Paste Flux for my jewelry.

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RoyKims
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2011, 10:48:21 pm »

i picked up a 5# box of 20 mule team today,  0.80 a pound. i'll try it tomorrow. this stuff seems to be good for just about everything..
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2011, 03:15:28 pm »

Per Wikipedia "Borax is also easily converted to boric acid. Its reaction with hydrochloric acid to form boric acid is:

Na2B4O7·10H2O + 2 HCl → 4 B(OH)3 [or H3BO3] + 2 NaCl + 5 H2O "
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2011, 07:02:54 pm »

I noticed the serious difference in the water 'cling' and banding after the borax as opposed to the beading and run off of the plain water.  Even though I have been using rain water.
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RoyKims
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« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2011, 10:36:44 pm »

I noticed the serious difference in the water 'cling' and banding after the borax as opposed to the beading and run off of the plain water.  Even though I have been using rain water.

cut some slabs today and noticed the same thing. the borax works wonders over the boric acid. i'd been getting a lot of rust with the acid but the borax cleared that up..  i filled up my saw and used what was left over to wash some rags and an apron and the some of the floor of the shop.. it works great for that also.. dancer5
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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2011, 06:38:21 am »

LOLOLOLOL:)
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« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2011, 08:22:11 am »

Looks like you guys have found a miracle mineral........... yippie

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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2011, 10:25:35 am »

Borax can be used as a wetting agent. Makes water 'wetter'. I use it with boric acid, silica and a little corn flour for smelting gold. It is used in tumblers too.
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Bob

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« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2011, 11:01:05 am »

Borax can be used as a wetting agent. Makes water 'wetter'. I use it with boric acid, silica and a little corn flour for smelting gold. It is used in tumblers too.

Bob, What does it do for tumbling??????

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mirkaba
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« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2011, 11:14:44 am »

Don.....It is a deflocculant and keeps the rocks and grit particles cleaner so the sanding grits and polish work more efficiently. Retards the coagulation of mud.
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Bob

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« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2011, 11:30:15 am »

Thanks Bob, I don't do much tumbling but thats good info...... yippie
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RoyKims
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« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2011, 01:31:20 pm »

Don.....It is a deflocculant and keeps the rocks and grit particles cleaner so the sanding grits and polish work more efficiently. Retards the coagulation of mud.

so it seems it will be good to also add to the water for grinding and sanding.. something i've already done to my gravity feed.. do you think it'll be a good wetting agent for cerium oxide????? i'd think so..

also if you scratch yourself it's a good antiseptic.. with 3 dogs here i'm also going to try out it's odor eliminating properties..

DON,  i think you may be right.. it's been in use for 4000 years..
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« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2011, 02:09:02 pm »

I use jet-dri in my grinding water and very little plain water with the tin oxide.
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Bob

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Rocksnot
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« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2011, 05:32:27 pm »

I noticed the serious difference in the water 'cling' and banding after the borax as opposed to the beading and run off of the plain water.  Even though I have been using rain water.

cut some slabs today and noticed the same thing. the borax works wonders over the boric acid. i'd been getting a lot of rust with the acid but the borax cleared that up..  i filled up my saw and used what was left over to wash some rags and an apron and the some of the floor of the shop.. it works great for that also.. dancer5


PMSL 
The floor around the saw in the garage has never been cleaner!
Hope the wife don't expect that I am going to do the whole garage (unless she will start leaving the car out!   minemine2  I could use the space hehe!
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RoyKims
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2011, 08:03:10 pm »

Quote
PMSL 
 I could use the space hehe!


HEHE,,  i haven't spread to the garage yet but the 12x12 shop is getting crowded
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2011, 10:12:27 am »

Hey here is an update on the Borax use in the water for the saw...

Starting out I with an initial  3-4 scoops (roughly 1/2 cup loose fill) of borax in a splash of water I then add 4 gallon of water (I use rain water cause the barrels are right next to the garage) I run the saw and make cuts.  When I need to add water to the saw I only put 1 scoop ( about 1/8 cup) to 4 gal. water since it does not all desolve there may be enough in the bottom of bucket to just add water!

The water has been very slippery to the feel (my hands have never been cleaner)  and there has been NO rust on anything!  Cast iron and steel are clean and the smidge of rust that was starting on the vice is now gone!

Whoo hoo!! comes to mind right off the bat  ura

I will have to come up with better calculation for how much to add per gallon for best result so I can start using Borax in the smaller saw and grinder in the house!
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RoyKims
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« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2011, 09:36:05 pm »

i've been using 4Tbls per gallon. seems to work. it may be too much but it works. no more rust here either..
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