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Lapidary / Gemstone Community Forum
January 21, 2019, 09:40:57 am
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carving gemstones dry

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3rdRockFromTheFun
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« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2012, 08:45:11 pm »

Rutilated quartz is rutile needles in the quartz. rutile is a titanium ore.

Thanks Michael - not sure where I heard that but I've got a nifty role of nickels sized piece I've been nervous about doing anything with. I'll put it on the play list as fair game.
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3rdRockFromTheFun
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« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2012, 09:03:38 pm »


This is a very informative thread and I would like to thank everyone for the
info they shared.
Makes me look at cabbing in a new light.

I wonder just how much particles I breath in when cabbing,
Think I will put on a cheap mask and go make some cabs and see what the mask looks like afterwards.
I did notice several days ago that with my light in a certain spot I can see the mist rising from my wheels.


Thanks Harold

It doesn't appear to wander far when wet. I haven't noticed the walls of the room I grind things into pounds of sludge over the past few months having any residue from it on any walls save for the one right behind my lap bench (and that's more like full-on spray, heh heh).

Regardless, I don't think anyone should be afraid of lapidary - most of it, thus far (bear in mind I'm a newbie) seems to be pretty common sense. Also, if I'm not mistaken aren't there plenty of old timers who've been lapping for decades who are relatively healthy compared to their non-lapping peers? A lot of it is probably 'degrees' of danger ranging from very little to a lot. For example you can get silicosis if you breath in too much talc, diatomaceous earth or stand in a room where sandstone is being crushed to make play sand. So I've heard  thinking13 ...

Anyway, for anyone who wants to be extreee sure - real respirators are not expensive. I paid $30 bucks for mine at Sears and it came with the cartridges I wanted. I think I've seen them on Amazon as well.
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Michael
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« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2012, 09:05:07 pm »

I have several pieces of rutilited  quartz and several large rutile crystals that I will cb in the near future, the rutile I dug at graves mountain in north georgia.
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pete
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2012, 03:19:22 am »

I got myself a respirator just before Xmas but don't find it very ergonomic. I end up twisting my neck and shoulders trying to look over the thing. It would be a major redesign of all my equipment, desks and everything to use the respirator comfortably in all situations so I'm back to using the cheap face mask type for all the close up stuff and the respirator when I don't need to change my line of sight so much.
As far as risks go I still think there's more chance of misshap on the road than in the workshop. Just my thoughts.
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3rdRockFromTheFun
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2012, 05:41:14 am »

I have several pieces of rutilited  quartz and several large rutile crystals that I will cb in the near future, the rutile I dug at graves mountain in north georgia.

do you have any pictures? interested in selling any of it?
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3rdRockFromTheFun
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2012, 05:42:39 am »

I got myself a respirator just before Xmas but don't find it very ergonomic. I end up twisting my neck and shoulders trying to look over the thing. It would be a major redesign of all my equipment, desks and everything to use the respirator comfortably in all situations so I'm back to using the cheap face mask type for all the close up stuff and the respirator when I don't need to change my line of sight so much.
As far as risks go I still think there's more chance of misshap on the road than in the workshop. Just my thoughts.

just curious - what brand/model did you buy?? mine doesn't obstruct my vision at all
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pete
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2012, 05:54:29 am »

I don't remember the brand but it was from Bunnings (the hardware supermarket). It has a single filter at the front so it cuts the lower part of my vision and consequently I have to tilt my head down more than normal.
It's like, if your sitting at the computer looking at the screen instead of glancing down to the keyboard (I can't touch type) you would need to move your head to see past the filter.
Maybe a double filter type might be better but I'm not buying another so I'll use whichever suits for the job.
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2012, 12:03:19 pm »

I don't remember the brand but it was from Bunnings (the hardware supermarket). It has a single filter at the front so it cuts the lower part of my vision and consequently I have to tilt my head down more than normal.
It's like, if your sitting at the computer looking at the screen instead of glancing down to the keyboard (I can't touch type) you would need to move your head to see past the filter.
Maybe a double filter type might be better but I'm not buying another so I'll use whichever suits for the job.

Yes that would be quite annoying - and dangerous (they're saving your lungs so you can get a hunk of obsidian lodged in your forehead)  headbang118

I use the double filter 3M (small mask - not full face - I prefer this in combination with safety goggles - that way I can choose which I want for both). I use the 60921 cartridges - man do they work great. I just put it on to make sure and there is a slight loss of line-of-site to each side but down the center no problem. In any case the entire assembly is only about 30 bucks - well worth a couple of lungs and less likely to cause brain injury than a single cartridge in front  yes
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skystone
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2012, 12:13:55 pm »

A cartridge type might be over kill. They are really for gasous contaminants (as well as particulate). When carving stone the problem is particulates. I use the white cheap heavier type you can get in a package of like 6 or so. Not the REALLY cheap thin little dixi cups. But the ones lat hace an actual vent thiggy in the front & are heavier filter material. With two elastic straps not just one. It'll hold it more firmly to your face & not let edge seep from not holding firmly.
Mike
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3rdRockFromTheFun
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2012, 07:26:04 pm »

A cartridge type might be over kill. They are really for gasous contaminants (as well as particulate). When carving stone the problem is particulates. I use the white cheap heavier type you can get in a package of like 6 or so. Not the REALLY cheap thin little dixi cups. But the ones lat hace an actual vent thiggy in the front & are heavier filter material. With two elastic straps not just one. It'll hold it more firmly to your face & not let edge seep from not holding firmly.
Mike

That's right Mike. I read all the documentation and whatnot and first I tried the 2091 filters (still have a couple of unused sets) while crunching up sandstone for a project someone else was doing. Man oh man I got sicker than all get-out. I was bedridden for three days. My poor health apparently makes me a lot more sensitive than most - but the fact that I got that sick tells me that particulates did in fact get in my lungs. Bravely/Stupidly I tried the other half of the rock using the 60921 filters and was fine.

It's difficult testing these things without expensive instruments though and there are a lot of variables. For example I don't remember if I was shaved the day I got sick and I know from experience that a heavy beard (which I sometimes have) can allow pretty much everything to just pass right in through the sides of the mask. So it could be that the 2091's are more than adequate and it was just operator error. But it's one of those things were the memory of how sick I got with 2091's and how I did not get sick with the 60921's just makes me sleep better to use the latter.

And you know it's curious because I have found that if you dunk a t-shirt in water, wring it out until it's just damp, wrap it around your face - you can crush sandstone (and mess with other hazardous particulates) all day long (making sure to keep the shirt moist) and I don't get sick doing that either. One thing I do know is that the cheapies you mentioned Mike always leave me sick when working with materials that will do that to me. Those are best used for sanding wood type projects I think - not rock. I haven't tried the ones you say you prefer.

In any event the only thing I can say with certainty is that if you're predisposed to problems because of a health condition, such as I am, then take the extra steps (whichever one's work for you). Elsewise I stand by what I'd said before - there's lots of old-timers who take very little precaution and have been doing rocks for decades and have no significant health problems so part of it may just be a sensitivity issue. Some people get very sick when exposed to minor amounts of diesel exhaust (the same amounts that you or I would get at a truck stop) yet I barely even notice the smell. So, go figure...  dunno
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mehoose
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« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2012, 07:57:01 am »

So I'm not crazy!
When I attended a Lap. club nearly every visit left me feeling quite ill and uncomfortable in the chest and mildly nauseous.
The air was full of mist and with 10 stations running non stop for the day, you really felt coated. Looking back, yes there was a good coating of dust across most surfaces so it kind of squashes the drummed in theory of if it's worked wet it's ok. It had to be carried there somehow.
A bit laughable really, if someone was working bone, shell or horn the mask would go on them but no one else would be wearing one.
When I get back into it I'll be looking into a proper mask for sure. Thanks for mentioning brands that work.
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« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2012, 11:02:37 am »

Mehoose the first time I worked with Cerium Oxide my eyes started itching and got red .
So if you are kinda sensitive to stuff watch out for that too.
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mehoose
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« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2012, 07:01:22 pm »

Thanks for the heads up Sara.
LOL, will look like I'm performing an operation.
Safety glasses..check..mask..check..apron..check..gloves..check..hair net..check.
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« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2012, 07:21:49 pm »

So I'm not crazy!
When I attended a Lap. club nearly every visit left me feeling quite ill and uncomfortable in the chest and mildly nauseous.
The air was full of mist and with 10 stations running non stop for the day, you really felt coated. Looking back, yes there was a good coating of dust across most surfaces so it kind of squashes the drummed in theory of if it's worked wet it's ok. It had to be carried there somehow.
A bit laughable really, if someone was working bone, shell or horn the mask would go on them but no one else would be wearing one.
When I get back into it I'll be looking into a proper mask for sure. Thanks for mentioning brands that work.
Absolutely not crazy! I read it time and again that it's safe to lap w/out a mask if you go wet and it's just not true for everyone - possibly not anyone. I suspect a lot of folks are cutting a preform and making one cab a day (average) and not doing any aggressive grinding or working for 10 hours straight. Try grinding the rot away from 25lbs of large chunks of obsidian - sometimes you grind a third of it away - in one session on an 80 grit (or lower) wheel. Even wet and even in good health I'd be curious how many people notice the cough afterwards and how many don't? And obsidian actually bothers me waaaaaay less than silica, esp crystalline silica (quartz, sandstone). And I haven't even tried anything with large ratios of metals and other known toxins - seems like that could kill ya quicker than emphysema.

Anyway, full mouth/nose masks are not nearly as uncomfortable or as much of a hassle as a lot of people think. You get used to it quick and it's always fun when you go open the door not remembering to take it off  chuckle

Interestingly enough I often forget my goggles - I have two bits of something embedded in one eye - very very tiny, can't even feel 'em, but I can see two teeny dark spots in bright light. Was told removing them might cause more damage than leaving them unless they flare up or travel and then look into removal. You'd think I'd learn - but last night I was grinding away a custom mandril and had sparks flying all over my face - no goggles. I did remember them when I finished and was leaving the room 'cause they're hanging right by the door lol...
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« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2012, 07:13:51 am »

Last best info I had says that the "yellow" fibers are indeed replaced (no longer asbestos) but that the blue fibers (Hawks Eye, or Hawk Eye) are not replaced and are still asbestos.

No quite.  If the asbestos fibers are replaced by silica before their alteration to iron oxides takes place, a rarer blue form of Tiger's eye known as Hawk's eye results.  The color of tiger eye is the result of impurities, not incomplete replacement.  I actually took a piece to work and did an atomic absorption test just to be sure.  That's why it took so long to reply.
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