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January 21, 2019, 09:01:07 am
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carving gemstones dry

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Author Topic: carving gemstones dry  (Read 2265 times)
Steve
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2010, 12:37:22 pm »

According to this website, Malachite does contain arsenic.........it's mentioned in the last sentence of the malachite explanation.........

http://www.mine-engineer.com/mining/mineral/malachite.htm
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Steve.............The Silver Fox

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azsavit
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2010, 12:45:48 pm »

Great info everybody! That looks like some awesome material, but with chrysocolla you never know until you put it to the saw!
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mirkaba
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« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2010, 01:05:52 pm »

Speaking of "dry grinding"............The longest word recognized by the 'Oxford English Dictionary' is 'pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis', a lung disease caused by the inhaling of volcanic silicon dust.      Ref. Nov. 2010 Discover Magazine
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Bob

Gathering dust in Montana.
azsavit
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« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2010, 01:08:36 pm »

Must.... memorize... useless... factoid.

Over a dozen syllables and it gets hard for me.
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earthling
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2010, 01:44:13 am »

Alright, so this dry carving has me intrigued!

Safety-wise I think I'm set.  I'm pretty familiar with what to work with and what not to, and I wear a respirator all day out of habit anyway from working with wood.

I moreso have technique questions.  I've played around with carving dry with some cheap Chinese diamond burrs (didn't want to ruin good sintered burrs!) in my flex-shaft and they seemed to work BETTER dry.  Like, I'd get the stone wet, and they'd work but really slowly, then if I let it get too dry it would work faster the dryer it got.

Is that the point of carving dry?

Also, this effect seemed most noticeable on hard stones (agates, chryso) -- I would assume this technique would be out (or at least one would have to be REALLY careful) on anything soft because of heat build-up?  I could see shattering an opal from trying to carve it dry like that...

So, if you don't mind sharing (hey, you brought it up not me, haha) what are your reasons for carving dry?  And does it come with drawbacks? I assume I'd have to be a lot more careful about getting pieces too hot... just work one spot, give it a break, etc. to keep from just grinding away and overheating the piece.

I've also noticed (I'm pretty new to carving stone) that listening to a piece is really key wet OR dry -- when the diamond is doing its work there's a very different noise than a loaded/clogged burr that's just spinning away against stone... is that a good way to keep from overheating the piece and potentially wrecking the stone or burr?
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bobby1
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2010, 08:58:16 am »

On larger pieces I use the "Mizzy" wheels dry. They are a silicon carbide wheel that was very popular a few years back. They cut rather quickly and with a little care they don't overheat the material being carved. I would never use any diamond product dry. It significantly shortens the life of the tool.
Bob
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krneaves
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2010, 09:34:53 am »

hello to all of you,i don't reccomend that anyone carve dry.that is the way i learned.any small diamond tools when used wet the krud builds up on them and slows up the cutting.i used to use mizzywheels to do heavy carving  because the diamond wheels cost so much.i haven't used them in years.i use all diamond now for everything but polishing.you can see some opal carvings on my website that were carved dry,the only time that water touched them was when i was polishing them.best regards,ken
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skystone
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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2010, 11:54:40 pm »

Allergies aside no matter what the rock or shell etc.  precautions should always be taken for your resperation. Ever hear of sillicossis (SP?) or mines lung, black lung etc. The cilica can not be expelled from the lungs. Eventually it will build up just plain mud in your lungs & drown you. Other minerals in stones may be carsonagenic such as aspestos. What do you think Tiger eye is? No one wants cancer. I used to do gun grips from ivory & several times was asked to fit pearl shell ones. I finally had to refuse to do pearl shell ones at all. There are paracites in many shells like pearl shell or abalony that can get in the muccus tissue of the nose, throat or lungs & start reproducing. Get a good resparator what are your lungs woth?
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bgast1
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 11:52:39 am »

I am really glad that I found this and read it all. Thank you all for the warnings.
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krneaves
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 04:44:06 pm »

bob,don't ever carve anything dry.the reason i carve dry was there was nobody carving much in the 1960's or they would have told me how dumb it was.i am 70 years old now and try to help as many as i can learn how to carve.in the 60's walking along some of the gravel roads around here you got more dust in your lungs than you would get in a week carving.i had no training and for a few years i didn't even wear a mask.some are now working the etheopian opal dry because it turns milky.i don't know much about that opal,i have cut a few and used water on them when polishing.they turned very milky but  turned back clear in a few days.if i can help you with carving in any way let me know.best regards,kenneth neaves
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2011, 03:11:46 pm »

O man...

I may have to just throw out the rocks and take up needle point...

or not!!

Good info about stuff I never knew before.  I am real allergic to sickness and/or death!  Thanks for the sage words everybody!
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AVoss
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2011, 06:43:27 am »

 I learned recently from a really fine carver the usefulness in carving dry. I'd noticed it long ago in my carving but never really put it into its whole perspective on my own.

 When you carve with water coating or flowing over the surface of your carving it produces an artificial surface. The surface of the water conceals all the fine details, abnormalities, chips, scratches, almost as if it polished. In order to get a really intense and accurate surface, at least regarding contoured surfaces ,use dry carving. Very small 400 or 600 grit flame tipped bits,very very short soft accurate stokes in one direction only. Never back and forth or side to side. At least thats what she'd say:). I go back and forth and side to side when it suits me . But never to get me final shaping done.  The actual dust the little strokes leave behind is very fine and reflects, in a sense, the detail of the surface directly below, very accurately. Sweep up the accumulation of dust frequently with a dry cotton swab and inspect every bit of the surface for unintended effects under strong magnification. I think you have to accept that in order to create really fine work you have to work under a microscope to some extent. I think you have to get used to it. It makes an incredible different in the quality of your finished form plus accomplishes a good deal of pre-polishing or sanding if done correctly.

 Always wear a particle mask and sealed glasses if you can stand it.

:)
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3rdRockFromTheFun
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Arfzzz...


« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2012, 03:13:09 pm »

A word on Tigers Eye -

I had heard that it contained asbestos so when someone offered me some cheap rough I told them that was why I did not want it. He swore up and down that the asbestos in Tigers Eye was replaced with quartz and impurities (giving it the color). I bought the rough and when I got back home I did some research. Last best info I had says that the "yellow" fibers are indeed replaced (no longer asbestos) but that the blue fibers (Hawks Eye, or Hawk Eye) are not replaced and are still asbestos. Okay, I'll buy that - but the trouble then is that if you look at a lot of rough/slabs you'll see that even much of the apparent yellow Tigers Eye, under a scope, does have blue fibers mixed in. The higher the ratio of the blue, the more green the overall appearance (yellow+blue=green).

+
Later Addition: One source of information that seems to be authoritative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger%27s_eye
-

I use a heavy duty respirator because my health condition, which is a deficiency in a certain spectra of my immune system, specifically that which covers ears nose and throat (and gut), tells me immediately that wet lapping does in fact throw a lot of particulates into one's lungs. Not as much as dry, obviously, but my system makes me ill for about two days if I wet lap a hunk of something as simple as obsidian without a respirator. Most people probably don't feel that at all ('til 20 years later). In other words - I make a good canary. As such I can those dust masks they sell (with the little rubber band) are just shy of useless (depends on the material really). I use a 3M mask with 60921 / organic vapors (look for the NIOSH stamp) cartridges. They've got the same protection as the dry equivalent but they'll stop the moist and wet stuff as well. They work so well if you put one on for a half hour and then take it off you'll be shocked at just how your own home (and your own self) smells! lol... true story - breathing air that pure for awhile allows your nose/brain to retune back in all the stuff it's learned to tune out. Anyway, the mask is not that uncomfortable (don't get full face - just mouth and use separate goggles if necessary) and I don't get sick from it anymore except when I pull that old "just this once" or "only for a few minutes" stunt.

BTW - rock dust not only does not get expelled from the lungs, but the lungs react by creating cysts around each particle (like an oyster pearling sand kind of reaction). That's what leads to the really bad stuff down the road.

Okay, so what's the story on rutilated quartz? Asbestos or not asbestos?
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-frank-

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Michael
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« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2012, 05:23:50 pm »

Rutilated quartz is rutile needles in the quartz. rutile is a titanium ore.
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HH5
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« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2012, 05:55:12 pm »


This is a very informative thread and I would like to thank everyone for the
info they shared.
Makes me look at cabbing in a new light.

I wonder just how much particles I breath in when cabbing,
Think I will put on a cheap mask and go make some cabs and see what the mask looks like afterwards.
I did notice several days ago that with my light in a certain spot I can see the mist rising from my wheels.


Thanks Harold
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