Testing to destruction China $50.00 a pound jadeite

[Michael S Hoover - Redrummd]

The purpose of these tests is to try and save the rest of you a bunch of money that photos and descriptions of China stone might pry from your hard earned dollars.  Quite frankly, every stone I have bought from China was garbage and not worth near the money I spent on it,  Pietersite, Turquoise and now Jadeite.  I need to find rare stone from around the world for my customers so I need to take risks.  China has been absolutely the worst for getting junk from glowing photos and descriptions.  This was the last straw and I have no intention to ever buy any stone being sold from China.

So, here is the story in a short version.  I found a seller with beautiful photos of rough Jadeite with polished windows on his stones all showing a beautiful emerald green interior.  The first photos shows what the Jadeite looks like in the Ebay descriptions.  The cost is right at $50.00 a pound so it is not cheap by any measure.  I found a small piece for sale that looked exceptional in the photos and bought it as a test piece.  See the first photos.  An interesting point is as soon as I told the seller I was expecting to leave negative feedback he erased the photos of the piece I bought!  Additional proof that fraud is known and intended by the seller.

The photos show:

1) A photo the seller lists with the incredible emerald green windows all over the stone.  I have figured out how they do this.  They use a very bright light to "see" through the skin to the few bright bands and spots of great colored jadeiite inside.

2) A photo I took of one of the windows on the stone I bought at $50.00 a pound.

3) The actual slabs cut from the piece.  The slabs now reside in my give away box as not one is useable for a knife.

4) The bright color minor sections that they spot and window to make the stone look to be exceptioinal Jadite.  Even unhealed fractures were found in cutting this Jadeite cobble.

5) What you will actually get if you waste your money and actually buy from them.  I do not beleive you would ever be sucessful in getting a refund if you try to return a piece to China so I didn't even bother to try.

6)  Here is a photo of how the Jadeite polishes.  It has huge issues with partially healed or stress marks and looks HORRIBLE even polished.  It is not even a tight grained Jadite as would be expected at $50.00 a pound!

A bit more information - I do not believe it is Jadeite from China.  In my expert opinion, based on cutting and owning dozens of pounds of Burma Jadeite - It is low grade Burma Jadite which is illegal to sell in the USA since 2003 and still imported to China.

Hopefully you will enjoy this posting and learn a bit of good information.  My advice - BUY NO STONE FROM CHINA.

[spirit bear beads]

Wow!....  thank you for sharing your information.  Let the buyer beware, I suppose. 

[moet101]

I've seen this item on Ebay also and wondered about them myself.  I've also concluded that 90% of the time if you buy anything from Ebay listed as Jade it will either be Bowenite, Aventurine or something similar.  But in my cases, what could I expect paying about $10.00 for an 6lb rough.  Thank you for the testing and information sharing!

Ken

[christopherl1234]

Thank you for sharing. This information is good to know! Would you mind sharing the sellers name?

[Michael S Hoover - Redrummd]

Do an Ebay search for jadeite rough.  From the photos, there will be no doubt as to the seller was. 

[Taogem]

I too have had horrible experiences with purchasing minerals from China. The last was a chunk of Pietersite.

I suppose if a person is going to purchase from China Ebay sellers, the same precausions should be taken as any other sellers. Check their history/feedback.

Jade would certainly be one to really think hard about when purchasing from China. Your Testing To Destruction with the piece you purchased is a good example.

I use to collect Chinese Snuff bottles. Got into buying one made of various gemstone minerals. I had good luck with a couple of old Nephrite bottles. Although I did get took an one labeled as White Jade, and turned out to be glass.

Thanks for sharing this !

[philosophersstone357]

Years ago I bought from the well-known Ebay seller Selling what he called jadeite from China. After slabbing it everything told me it was not jadeite. I decided to do a simple scratch test to test its hardness and found that a steal blade could scratch it easily which it should not be able to do at all. I went back to see his feedback to find who else bought it and if anyone else caught onto this scam and found to my surprise no one else caught on and by that time he already sold several hundred pounds. I found another seller who bought it from him and was reselling as slabs and told him what I found. He did the same test and also a specific gravity, which also came out with the same results that this was not jadeite. When I told the seller he told me I did not know what I was talking about and that he already had many satisfied customers and would not give me a refund because I had already slabbed the rock. Lesson learned

[Enchantra]

A bit more information - I do not believe it is Jadeite from China.  In my expert opinion, based on cutting and owning dozens of pounds of Burma Jadeite - It is low grade Burma Jadite which is illegal to sell in the USA since 2003 and still imported to China.

Why is Burma Jadeite illegal to sell in the USA?
I'm curious because I haven't heard about this before.

[Taogem]

Here is an article for you Amanda..

Referring to the crackdown on monks in 2007 and the junta’s decision to place restrictions on international aid for cyclone victims, Berman said: “These brutal actions demonstrate the regime’s moral bankruptcy, but unfortunately it is far from financially bankrupt.”

While the Burmese people live in abject poverty, Burma’s military leaders continue to take Burma’s vast natural resources as their own, he said.

[hulagrub]

Michael, keep showing your testing and results. Love it!

[Michael S Hoover - Redrummd]

 On July 28th 2003, US President George W. Bush signed into law the Burmese Freedom and Democracy Act of 2003 (H.R. 2330). This act bans the importation into the United States of any article that is produced, mined, manufactured, grown or assembled in Burma.

[redrockrods]

Thanks again for posting this information!

[gearthgems]

Pietersite is another chinese rock that is very risky to buy on ebay...They use intense lighting and only take pics of the best areas magnified greatly..I know how to read pietersite well and have gotten some good pieces but most ly not so good.  Chinese pietersite is also usually very cracked and sometimes pitted..The African pietersite is also hard to buy from pictures though usually better than the Chinese..it can have many flaws that you cant see in pics..especially pitting..Gary3

[Enchantra]

Here is an article for you Amanda..

Thank you.  Thats makes more sense now.
I feel quite badly for the people who couldn't even get the aid that was supposed to be for them. 

[Taogem]

Pietersite is another chinese rock that is very risky to buy on ebay...They use intense lighting and only take pics of the best areas magnified greatly..I know how to read pietersite well and have gotten some good pieces but most ly not so good.  Chinese pietersite is also usually very cracked and sometimes pitted..

That is exactly what I found too. It looks absolutely beautiful in the pics, and then when it arrives.. 

[Rayw1]

The original photos look exactly like rocks that I bought in Mae Sai in 2007 on the Thailand/Burma border.  The entry point here is commonly used for the smuggling of Burmese rubies and spinel so it makes sense that this stuff is coming out of Burma.
I paid a few dollars for half pound size pieces that did have polished faces.  They are though very grainy and appear more like an aventurine than jadeite.

In Hong Kong jade markets, you can buy any amount of "jade".  Anything at all coloured somewhat green or mauve coloured is sold as jade.  I bought some doughnut shaped polished stones of reconstituted stone dyed green and purple that the seller absolutely positively swore was jade.  At $A2 ($US1.80)a stone it was just good fun.

[LynxSphinx]

As far as good rough or quality in just about any product you want to avoid China. I like to work turquoise but basically boycot Chineese Turquoise. With that said they do own a huge substantial CHRYSOPRASE mine in Australia and all the rough goes to China for processing. I have purchased Australian chrysoprase from the mining company in China and it was top notch. I now purchase chrysoprase from an Auzzie owned mine. China is Communist and opresses over a billion people.

[JadeJunkee]

I believe the term they use in China for these rocks is "gambling stones"...now we know why :-)

[Neural]

On July 28th 2003, US President George W. Bush signed into law the Burmese Freedom and Democracy Act of 2003 (H.R. 2330). This act bans the importation into the United States of any article that is produced, mined, manufactured, grown or assembled in Burma.

So basically now they will sell all their things to us via China, who will add some lead to it before shipping it over here. :/

[Isotelus]

One has to suspect that if any of this rough was good quality they probably would have cut it themselves.

[rockwonders]

I purchased one of these too and had the same results...it's now decorating my garden but doesn't even do that very well!

[Roger]

Sorry for your demise. Thanks for the heads up

[mick B]

Hello Michael, in 2005 I bought 2 pieces of jadeite from a ebay supplier called jade and gem, this material was good but quite expensive, the difference was the entire ends where cut and polished to show the stones true color,  2 pieces cost me close to $300.00 around 200 grams total, nice green material, but this supplier no longer uses ebay and now I cant find him.
Last year I bought a piece of the same supplier as you did, very bad material, same thing, had little polished spots of green,  good material has green showing over the entire stone, the original pieces I purchased in 2005 did, obviously not imperial but still a good green, they also cook some of this material to enhance the color, the piece I bought last year  had a black burnt rind, that had charkol stuck to it. I love good quality jadeite but now it seems nearly impossible to obtain, the good material is not available to the average lapidary cutter, you need a multi million dollar bank balance to purchase this material.
One Scientist in the US is very good on Jadeite, George Harlow, he works for the American Museum of natural Histery, travels the world looking at Jadeite, he tested some of my Aussie nephrite for me,  he has an incredible knowledge on jadeite.

Cheers mick B

[tkcaz]

Are there no reputable jade dealers online, or is the issue just the Chinese dealers?

[gregorgr8]

yes there are.  here are 4 URLs to study.  use the last one first and come see them in Tucson, at main show. 


Jade dealeers

http://jadecarver.com/waterworn.htm

http://r-and-r-rockhound.blogspot.com/search/label/jade

http://www.jadehunt.com/

http://www.timelessjade.com/page/4/


also, I am close to selling my jade and I will describe it honestly.

ps  check out jade through the ages and see them in tucson feb 7 and after.

[mick B]

There has never been any True jadeite found in china, only Nephrite, not putting Nephrite down as some of this material rivals the best Jadeite, any seller stating they have China Jadeite is a misleading statement, yes this material is poor quality Burmese Jadeite, I done an SG test on it and it is jadeite and the weight is correct, the garbage they don,t want, I had a look at the four posts, yes there is good suppliers on ebay, but yet to see any good quality Jadeite, this is because the price of the top material is huge, top quality imperial sells for $40,000 kg rough, only the mega rich China buyers have this material.

mick B 

[instarsia]

Sorry but I would never buy any stones from china is a number rule for me, there are I am sure a few good dealers out there but the chinese are masters of deception and fakes. I once bought large red coral from a chinese dealer in tucson and my friends bought some to it was like $14 when I started grinding on it the water turned red and the coral turned white , I was young and stupid oh well .

[Fullerton]

Firstly, I really enjoy these tests to destruction 

Secondly, thought I'd just say that if you generalise too much ... you are bound to sometimes not always be right.

I occassional use one Chinese ebay store for supply of lapidary rough. Recently, it's been for lapis lazuli and sunstone. I've been happy with the rocks received. Accurate descriptions and cabbing results have been good. Poorer stones are cheaper and better stones are at higher prices - and I've bought both. Even the low grade is cabbable.

So there may be a few good Chinese dealers amongst the shonky ones 

On the other hand I have bought about 5 boxes of rough from a very well known (and, I guess  respected) US supplier. Not sure why I keep going back as I get let down nearly every time with their hand selected rough versus the images and descriptions on their website. eg. an Indian jasper sold to show great colour contrasts had 95% black and a little edge of red. This hurts when I pay about US$60 freight for a 15lb order. I usually get a pound to 3 pounds each of a variety of materials and there's always a couple or more of materials that completely don't make cab grade or are barely there. So half my order is usually a waste of money.

I initially thought, oh well that's the luck of the draw for random rough. But it happens consistently (that I get very, very poor pieces) so I'm now thinking that maybe as an overseas small purchaser it doesn't matter to a US company if I don't get reasonable quality   

[gemmy]

Here is good example of a fraudulent advertising.
I needed some tourmaline beads for a necklace I was designing. I thought I would try eBay.
Here is the link of what i purchased:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290563219530?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


I bought it cheaply and after testing discovered that it is dyed quartz.
It is still for sale on eBay. It appears they don't really care as long as they collect their commission on the sale.

I thought i should share.
If we all start exposing the fraudsters it may stop.