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How do I change the belt in my arbor?

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Author Topic: How do I change the belt in my arbor?  (Read 983 times)
redrockrods
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« on: August 09, 2009, 09:37:31 pm »

my new pulley requires a little longer belt to be used. I'm having trouble figuring out how to dismantle the arbor  and removing the bearings, hat, collar and retaining ring from the shaft to get the new belt in place. Does anyone have experience doing this and can give me some directions?

Thanks
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Bluesssman
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 09:49:39 pm »

I would love to help but I need more information. Post some pictures of your unit and let's see what I can do to help...


Gary
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redrockrods
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 11:17:07 pm »

I'm afraid that I've made a mess of things...  I couldn't figure out how to remove the retaining ring properly, and ended up breaking it off on the right side of the arbor...hope it's replaceable... after that I removed the screws  to the bearings collar holding it to the frame and loosened the hex screw that secured the locking collar in place on both right and left sides. Then, because I wanted to do a thorough job of it, I proceeded to whack the right end of the arbor shaft with a rubber mallet to try to push the arbor shaft through...well, I got about 3 inches and then I think the bearings meet the grove where the retaining ring was and now it's stuck. So before I run out to my car and retrieve my sledge hammer....help!

Here's pictures:

1. right side of arbor, showing locking ring that is now in pieces...
2. the pulley and bearings
3. left side of arbor, still has locking ring and unmovable steel spacer, permanently rusted onto the shaft...


* 2009_0809_165935.jpg (45.27 KB, 940x705 - viewed 21 times.)

* 2009_0809_191944.jpg (41.42 KB, 940x705 - viewed 24 times.)

* 2009_0809_191953.jpg (41.99 KB, 940x705 - viewed 25 times.)
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Taogem
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 08:22:16 am »

I don't know why, but having a bit of a time figuring out what I am looking at.

Can you show one more pic showing the entire rear of the unit. I think this is one of your expando drum units?

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Bluesssman
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 10:36:57 am »

I would start with a can of good penetrating oil and use it on everything. You might need to let it sit a while and even possible reapply. The area that you think is stuck on the retaining ring groove needs to be addressed. You will need to move the shaft back a bit so you can file off any edge or ridge on that grove. I can understand your frustration. Could you give me a shot of the overall unit and then progressively closer ones. We can get you through this!!!!


Gary
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redrockrods
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 03:44:26 pm »

I'm afraid I picked a bad time to start breaking my equipment. I leave for a business trip to CT tonight.  I'll take a few more pictures before I leave and post them so we can mull them over the next couple days. I've given everything a good coating of wd40 to hopefully it will loosen up some of the rusted parts. in a way, it's good that I'm dismantling this, as all of the rubber grommets and gaskets need to be replaced as well. There's some big marks on the arbor shaft as well, looks like someone took some pipe wrenches to it at some point thinking that they screw off and were stuck...

.Any ideas where I can get replacements for the rubber grommets and  gaskets? I wonder if I can get parts directly from lortone.
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Bluesssman
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 07:51:18 pm »

Once you get everything apart, I will help you find parts. I realize you are going out of town, so this is not a good time to say that WD40 is not a great penetrating oil...

We will get you through this as painlessly as possible! This is the stuff I really enjoy...


Gary
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redrockrods
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 11:24:31 pm »

Thanks Gary, I appreciate it.

I had my doubts about the wd40, but I didn't have a chance to track down some pb blaster before I left. I did take a few more pictures that should help. I'll post those tomorrow as I get a chance between flights.

My arbor seems to have been pieced together from one that was rusted out. much of it has been re-fabricated out of steel square tube and sheet, and riveted together. If I had known it was like this before I bought it, I would have waited for something else to come along.  Oh well, live and learn.

I did manage to whack the arbor shaft back and free it up again. nothing like brute force to relieve post flight stress. The bearings are no longer stuck on the locking ring channel.

here's something interesting I noticed: the arbor has a 4" pulley on it...lortone's specs specify a 2.5". The motor had a 2" pulley on it... what the original owner was thinking when he put this together? I'm wondering if I should pick up a couple 2.5" pulleys to outfit this with so I can get it back to original specs. I've got 2 4" pullies now, but the smaller ones would let me keep using the existing belt.  I bought a 44" belt from home depot but I think it's going to be too big, even with 2 4" pulleys. 
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Taogem
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 10:44:46 am »

I'm wondering if I should pick up a couple 2.5" pulleys to outfit this with so I can get it back to original specs. I've got 2 4" pullies now, but the smaller ones would let me keep using the existing belt. 

Yes, I would swap em out with a couple of 2.5" pulleys.. 

Have a good flight  :)
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redrockrods
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 07:54:04 pm »

George, I think I will get a couple 2.5" pulleys.

Here's more pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38308319@N07/?s
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Taogem
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 10:48:27 pm »

From what I can see, it appears you have no choice but to get that darn unmovable steel spacer off..

I just don't see any way around it !

Hmmm....

Your not going to be able to take that to the shop and expect them to jimmy that in a way so as to use a press to remove it.

I wonder if a large gear or pulley puller set would be able to get a hold of that?

That puppy just has got to come off... 
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Bluesssman
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 09:43:44 am »

If I could not get the steel spacer to move, I would just carefully cut the spacer off with a disc grinder. Then clean the area with fine sand paper.


Gary
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Dr Joe
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2009, 05:22:08 pm »

After it has sat with PB for a week, tap it all over the sleeve to help break up the rust, clean off the excess oil, then cool the shaft with ice for 20 minutes to contract the shaft diameter, after this, heat the sleeve quickly with a torch (propane is fine) to expand it and gently  tap it off the shaft with a drift or cold chisel (a slide hammer would be a good choice in this instance.

All this could take several attempts but is the least damaging to the equipment.

Next could be cutting the sleeve with a dremel tool and prying it open with a screwdriver.

When this whole ordeal is over, I have one word for you..... MAINTENANCE  ;).

I hope everyone else out there is watching your efforts and  will be preemptive with there equipment.

Dr Joe

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Taogem
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2009, 07:14:54 pm »

Just one more thought...

To get a nice even banging on it, you might try a piece of pipe slightly larger than the arbor yet small enough to hit that spacer..

Might be better than chisels and hammers directly on that.

You will get a much better and even bang for your each hammer stroke...

Just a thought  :)
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redrockrods
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2009, 08:37:04 pm »

After it has sat with PB for a week, tap it all over the sleeve to help break up the rust, clean off the excess oil, then cool the shaft with ice for 20 minutes to contract the shaft diameter, after this, heat the sleeve quickly with a torch (propane is fine) to expand it and gently  tap it off the shaft with a drift or cold chisel (a slide hammer would be a good choice in this instance.

All this could take several attempts but is the least damaging to the equipment.

Next could be cutting the sleeve with a dremel tool and prying it open with a screwdriver.

When this whole ordeal is over, I have one word for you..... MAINTENANCE  ;).

I hope everyone else out there is watching your efforts and  will be preemptive with there equipment.

Dr Joe

.

Thanks Doc,  I'll definitely hit it with the PB next week and see if I can get it off.  would dry ice be over kill for the hot/cold treatment?

assuming I get the spacer off, what's the recommended way for dealing with those locking rings? is there a proper way to remove them without breaking the darn things?

Do you guys thing I should do anything to the arbor shaft to attempt to address the deep gouges left by pipe wrenches? I'd like to know what the previous owner was thinking when he put the wrenches to it...
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Bluesssman
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2009, 10:10:09 pm »

The gouges left by the pipe wrench just need to be brought down to the proper diameter.

Split ring pliers are used to hook into the two small holes and then spread the ring and remove. If the ring is rusted in place, you will have to break it out and clean the grove for the next ring.

I am not sure the hot and cold treatment will be successful. If it is extremely rusted, the added material built up by the iron oxide may limit the about of needed clearance created by the hot and cold treatment. Though it still might be worth a try.

George's idea of using tight fitting pipe is a good one.


Gary
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redrockrods
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2009, 09:57:57 pm »

Success!


Ater a little PB, a sledge hammer and some chisels, I was able to get the frozen spacer off of the shaft. I then proceeded to file down the gouges left in the shaft by the pipe wrench, and lo and behold the shaft slid right out of the arbor, no problem. I paid home depot a visit after work and picked up pliers to remove those pesky locking rings. I also found a replacement for the one that I had broken. So far so good!  I still need to replace all of the grommets on the arbor, both those ones in the top of the arbor for the water hoses and the big ones that fit around the arbor shaft. The small ones I think I can find at the hardware store, but I'm not so sure about the other.  I'll also need to get a couple 2.5" pulleys to outfit this unit with so I can get it back to OEM specs. I do have two 4" pulleys now, but I can't find a belt small enough to drive them with locally.

Question: can you cut down a belt and super glue it back together?
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Bluesssman
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2009, 10:18:05 pm »

You won't have any luck cutting a v-belt and trying to glue it. You might want to go to an automotive parts store for your belt. They have many different sizes. Glad it is going better for you. I look forward to seeing your unit when you are finished!


Gary
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redrockrods
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2009, 10:35:05 pm »

Auto part store! why didn't I think of that? I'll try there for a belt. Thanks Gary.
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2009, 10:37:40 pm »

Alright !!

Glad your getting it !  :)
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redrockrods
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« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2009, 11:48:34 am »

new problem!

I've got the arbor re-assembled with the new 4" pulleys and belt, but when I loaded my two grinding wheels and expando drums and turned the unit on, it proceeded to "dance" all over my counter top and I had to shut it off quickly. I took off half of my wheels and drums and the "dancing" is less severe. the unit doesn't move at all when there are no wheels or drums installed.  I can't fasten the unit down to the counter in any kind of permenent fashion...I was counting on the weight of the unit itself to keep it from moving around. Any ideas what could cause this?

Also, George I saw the *other* thread, not sure what to make of it, did't know any drama was going on in this one. Thanks for keeping this one clean.
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Bluesssman
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« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2009, 12:02:57 pm »

Let me see if I have this right. If there are no wheels on the unit it does not vibrate? The obvious thing is wheels out of balance, however, I wonder if the arbor shaft is ever so slightly bent that when the wheels are added they amplify the problem. If you do not have a dial indicator to measure shaft run out, I would suggest taking a very long pencil and running the machine without any wheels. While holding the pencil at one end, lay the other end on the shaft. If the shaft is perfectly straight the pencil will feel smooth to your fingers. If the shaft is bent at all, you will feel the difference. Try this and get back to me!


Gary
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Taogem
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« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2009, 04:30:08 pm »

I have the exact same problem with my multi wheel unit. Have not ever tried running it without any wheels to see if it does not vibrate like it does with the wheels on.

I placed a padded material under the whole unit. That helped just a bit, but not much.

Some of the expando drums are not perfect, so thinking that may be part of the problem..

If the unit does not vibrate at all without the wheels, I would probably take the time to put one back on at a time and see what that might tell.

Now that you have pointed this out, I may well give this a whirl on mine and see what happens.

Also, the motor on mine is bolted to the unit rather than separate. Maybe something about the motor is causing some vibration. Might have been able to mount the motor behind the unit on the bench ??

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redrockrods
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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2009, 04:59:02 pm »

My motor is riveted onto the back of the arbor and some of the rivets are loose...I bet this is is causing an problem as well.

Gary I'll get back to you on the arbor shaft. I've been away on vacation fishing and didn't have a chance to try your suggestion.
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« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2009, 10:40:23 pm »

Well, I think I've got the big issues sorted out now.  I re-riveted the motor to the back of the arbor and there is no longer any loose connections there. 

Gary, I tried the pencil trick, everything felt fairly smooth to me, although I might be doing it wrong. do you hold the pencil at one end and lay the body of it along the spinning arbor shaft? I don't get any vibrations when running the unit with no wheels.

I bought box of 3/4" washers to use as spacers and replaced all of the old plastic spacers that were being used previously. Then I loaded my wheels to the unit one at a time. The problem wheels seem to be the ones mounted on the edges of the shaft, and the grinding wheels in particular seem to cause more vibration than the expando drums.  I've got everything configured now to minimize the vibrations and the arbor no longer dances around on the table, but there is still some vibration going on. I bet the shafts are bent slightly, or some of the wheels are unbalanced.

All in all, I'm pretty satisfied with everything at the moment. Now that the drums are spinning up to speed, the drums expand and the belts stay in place! This alone should make cabbing much easier. I would like to eventually work out the remaining vibrations, but I think the good folks at home depot are tired of seeing me in the store every half hour! I have a lot more tools now...

Big thanks to everyone who helped me in this thread!
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Bluesssman
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2009, 12:13:28 pm »

Very glad things are working better for you. I look forward to seeing your cabs!!!


Gary
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2009, 01:22:42 pm »

That was quite a project.. Glad your up and running !  :)
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Wayne the Shrink
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« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2009, 07:48:51 am »

Congratulations for getting it done.  I need to do one, too, and old poilshing head with too much vibration.   I'm just getting set up to start cabbing but have been doing woodwork and handiwork for years.  The guys at the local hardware store know me by name.  LOML thinks that's kinda cute. 
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