General information about the Site

This lapidary and jewelry design community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert lapidaries and jewelry designers.

Forum cabochon in the Spotlight

Bob ( bobby1 ) shared this unknown druzy

Forum Jewelry Design in the Spotlight

John shared this beautiful pair of amethyst cufflinks

Forum Jewelry Design in the Spotlight

Mick B shared this stunning opal shell carving

Intarsias / Composites / Bead Making in the Spotlight

Kent shared this really nice Imperial Jasper pendant

Lapidary Related and Forum Member Shop Links

Brian Ababurko Silversmithing Classes / Rock Rollers Club

Dons Lapidary Arts

Idaho Rock Shop

Rare Rocks and Gems

Coyote Rainbow

Lightninghorse

Rocky Treasures

Talking Rocks

Fine Gem Designs

Idaho Rockman

Fine Woodwork and Lapidary

Darkstar Jewelry

DLC Gems

Teton Art Gallery

Art Cut Gems

Woman With A Torch

Lapidary Buy and Sell (Facebook Group)

Lapidary (Facebook Group)

Lapidary Equipment Marketplace (Facebook Group)


Lapidary / Gemstone Community Forum
March 26, 2019, 03:03:44 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Login Register  

1890 Minerals from Jeweler labled "Carbon" but they shine like Diamonds

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 1890 Minerals from Jeweler labled "Carbon" but they shine like Diamonds  (Read 158 times)
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« on: December 12, 2018, 11:30:25 pm »

Hello,

I need some Id help , these all shine like Diamonds and set my tester off .. I have no idea what mineral these are and I have searched a lot .. I see things that are close but not the same.

I actually thought they were Diamonds at one point .. no idea what they are but they are beautiful with many different colors.

Any help would be tremendously appreciated. Thank you.

They pin my Diamond Tester.


* min3.jpg (147.2 KB, 1080x1440 - viewed 11 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Taogem
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 12348



« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 09:45:26 am »

Welcome to the forum ..

From this pic, I can not tell..  dunno
Report Spam   Logged

rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 01:21:56 pm »

Thank you it is a real Mystery .. they do not stick to a Magnet and I just cannot find what I am looking at here.

The Jeweler is my Girlfriends Great Grandfather we have his Desk from 1890 and we use it as a TV entertainment center but we left all of his tools in there.

These were in the desk in a small metal cylinder that was labeled "Carbon" but he made Diamond Rings every day.. If anyone has any idea I would appreciate it.


Thanks for the welcome.


* min4.jpg (90.04 KB, 1080x1440 - viewed 8 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 01:23:21 pm »

another picture


* min3.jpg (147.2 KB, 1080x1440 - viewed 5 times.)

* min2.jpg (179.46 KB, 1080x1440 - viewed 4 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2018, 01:24:24 pm »

oops same picture , sorry


* min1.jpg (133.15 KB, 1080x1440 - viewed 7 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
slabbercabber
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 706


« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2018, 02:01:09 pm »

That looks like corundum, grinding slag.
Report Spam   Logged
Debbie K
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1139


« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 05:03:37 pm »

I respectfully disagree. This may be carbonado, and if so, has some value. The thing that should make you suspicious that they may be carbonado is that they were in a tin marked "carbon", they appear to have iridescence and that they do set of a diamond tester. Carbonado is harder than diamond, and if low quality it's used as industrial abrasive. If these are solid, they are probably worth something. They are what are referred to as "black diamonds" and are rare. Most black diamonds on the market today are not natural, and these probably are.

Where did your girlfriends great-grandfather live? If you could establish their provenance, they'd be worth more.

Wish they were mine...

https://www.mindat.org/min-27227.html
https://www.gemsociety.org/article/black-diamonds/
https://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24757&hilit=carbonado
https://www.ebay.com/sch/110733/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=carbonado

Debbie


Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 06:26:59 pm »

You have my attention thank you so much .. I was suspicious that they could be some form of diamonds . if indeed they are what kind of value are we talking about?

Pretty exciting if they are , thank you so much Debbie now I need to know what to do to verify if indeed they are.

Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2018, 06:32:37 pm »

Mine do look like them but different because mine are real and I can definitely prove the provenance I have pictures, Postcards. Business cards from the 1890s.

I wonder what these would sell for being natural if they are Carbonado .. I think they might be..

thank you for the help.
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2018, 06:37:26 pm »

Debbie Caribou Maine is where the Jewelry shop was.
Report Spam   Logged
Debbie K
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1139


« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2018, 07:03:46 pm »

Rob:

They look like they vary in price, so hard to say what their value would be. Carbonado only comes from 2 places, Brazil (or S. America) and Africa. It's speculated that they were part of a meteor impact; read about it on Wikipedia or the Gem Society article that I attached previously.

I don't know who would probably collect them other than mineral collectors. There look to be one or two that are really nice specimens and would probably have much more value that way than "gemstones". If you go on the Mindat.org website, at the bottom of the page there is a list of mineral sellers; it may be a good idea to contact several of them to see if there is any interest. Also, weigh a few of the larger ones and see how many carats they weigh; you can compare what you have to what's listed on Ebay.

If you have a gem and mineral society in your area, go to it and see if there are any gemologists there. They could give you an idea if these are what we think they could be. This is the most important thing to do; until you know what these are, all of this discussion is moot.

What is surprising to me is the nice structure these have, they're not as amorphous as many of the other ones I've seen. (Which may mean that they're not carbonado). Anyway, let us know what you find out. This is interesting!

Debbie
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 07:10:11 pm »

Thank you so much I will let you know they glimmer like Diamonds but I will follow your instructions to see what I have here.

I have a scale how do I do karats? I am a novice when it comes to this stuff.


thank you!
Report Spam   Logged
Debbie K
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1139


« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 07:15:59 pm »

Rob: Here's a list of clubs in the US: http://www.rockhounds.com/rockshop/clubs/

If your scale is digital, you usually can set it for different things like grams, ounces or carats. If it's a manual scale it's probably in grams and you'll have to convert it to carats. https://www.metric-conversions.org/weight/grams-to-carats.htm If it's ounces or anything other google for conversions from whatever it is to carats. Gemstone scales are usually accurate to .01 carats; kitchen scales aren't good enough.

Debbie
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 07:32:20 pm »

Thank you! Some of the pieces are fairly large .. they have every Color in them.. thank you for the help being able to do Karats is going to be very helpful to me.. awesome.. thanks so much.. I hope they are legit!

Report Spam   Logged
Debbie K
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1139


« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2018, 07:38:00 pm »

So do I, Rob. Please do let us know what you find out. The funny thing is, if you had posted this 6 months ago I wouldn't have known what these might be. I read about them on the GemologyOnline forum a few months ago; never had heard of them before.

Good luck!

Debbie
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2018, 10:49:45 pm »

Debbie , I think they nailed it over on the other site.

Here is one of the replys after I said ,. I guess it is not a jackpot.


Well, an early example of carborundum would be at least a small jackpot - historic value, and you have some documentation and history to go with your sample(s). A keeper. Santa came early on that one.

It is the first carborundum so I have no idea what that would do to the Value.

I scratched a bottle very easily with it .. it is very hard and jagged here is the photo.



* 99.jpg (183.06 KB, 1080x1440 - viewed 3 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2018, 07:31:13 am »

Debbie they are kind of torn on the value of these.

One person says put them back.. another person says they are a small jackpot because they are the first of this mineral and differ.

I agree that they are carborundum but the mineral is still different in appearance.


Does carborundum set of a Diamond tester? I might buy some and compare it.
Report Spam   Logged
Debbie K
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1139


« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2018, 09:09:49 am »

Rob:

What other site are you referring to? Are they gemologists?

You really need to find a gemologist who has a Raman spectroscope or a university in your area that does to identify this. All we can do is say "This looks like..."

BUT, your rocks set off a thermal diamond tester for diamond, and so will Carbonado.

It's Carbonado, not Carborundum.

Since your rocks were in the possession of a jeweler in the 1890's, this really doesn't help establish provenance. If the tin said "Carbon - Brazil" or "Carbon -Africa" that perhaps would. Carbonado was first found in Brazil, and if this is what they are, it's likely that's where they're from.

From my understanding of this stone, if it is carbonado, it's only really value is as a mineral specimen, as it is too hard and often too porous to polish/facet well. But don't underestimate that market.

Find someone in your area who is an expert; either mineralogist or gemologist and have them look at them. Do not listen to anyone on the internet who tries to give you a positive ID on a picture alone, it simply isn't possible. When you said (and showed) your diamond tester lit up for diamond, that's why I ventured an opinion. Also, the appearance of yours is different; it is much more crystalline and may be much more unusual.

Really, truly, try to find experts in your area. These look to me like they are pretty cool and different. I'd love to see a close up of them. If you find a gemologist in your area, see if they can do a specific gravity test, as carbonado has a SG of 3.52 + or- .01, which is a really narrow range and pretty diagnostic.

Debbie
Report Spam   Logged
slabbercabber
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 706


« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2018, 06:00:17 pm »

If you want to be sure it is not grinding slag you can first try a strong magnet.  Carbonado is non magnetic.  An even more certain test is acid.  Any metal that has been ground will fiz.
Report Spam   Logged
Debbie K
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1139


« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2018, 06:28:46 pm »

Here are two more interesting articles/papers on carbonado:

https://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/summer-2017-carbonado-diamond
http://www.geologyin.com/2015/10/what-are-black-diamonds-and-how-do-they.html

I think the acid test is a good idea, too.

Debbie
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2018, 06:42:15 am »

Thank you so much and your right. They resemble the Mineral they referred to but you are right my minerals when you look at them closely are much different in composition.

I think they are Black Diamonds.. they are not magnetic ….is Corundum this beautiful? I did not see the specimens glimmering nor have the colors mine do.

I do need to find a professional and have them analyzed.

thanks so much and I will let you know what I find.

regards,

Robert
Report Spam   Logged
Debbie K
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1139


« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2018, 07:46:29 am »

Silicon carbide, which is also called carborundum, can really be beautiful. Moissanite, which is a diamond simulant, is silicon carbide, can be natural or man-made.

Silicon carbide has been man-made since about 1891. It is true that it could have been a curiosity then and that your girlfriends g-grandfather may have thought it was so unusual he would have bothered putting it in a tin and preserving it.

SC is very hard; a 9 on the Mohs hardness scale. Diamond is a 10, as is carbonado. Your thermal tester went past diamond; this is why you need someone to look at it. When you do take it to someone, make sure that they have a tester that will differentiate between Moissanite and Diamond; some don't.

Moissanite has a SG of 3.218–3.22, which is lighter than carbonado. This would probably be the easiest way to make a determination.

Debbie K
Report Spam   Logged
rob71
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2018, 08:25:42 am »

Debbie thank you for your links and expertise on minerals.. it shows me how little I actually know about Gems and Diamonds and Minerals.

I appreciate the Links and advice .,.. he did put it in a tin and label it .. it was in a little pouch that is built into the Desk I would not say hidden but secured rather.

his name was Byron O Noyes


I googled his name and it came up with an article lol , https://thecounty.me/2017/05/12/living/from-our-files/ar-lookingback-19-17/

He was well known in the area as quite a Watch Maker.
Report Spam   Logged


Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum | Buy traffic for your forum/website

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy