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Trim Saw Purchase: Used Rock Rascal Model J

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Author Topic: Trim Saw Purchase: Used Rock Rascal Model J  (Read 587 times)
Ken S.
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« on: September 12, 2015, 05:42:31 pm »

Hello Group: saved7

For better or for worse I've jumped into the gravel pit with my purchase of a RR Model J trim saw.  This is not the prettiest saw you ever saw (nice pun), and I'm not sure how old it is but I am assured it runs true.  It was an ebay purchase, paid more than I wanted to as there were 4 bidders, but nailed it. Heavy item to ship, as the priority postage for the RR and the motor (belt driven) was more than my bid for them.

I'm pretty good at refurbishing mechanical machines, did a nice job on my Unimat lathe if I do say so myself, so I can wait to get the saw/motor, take 'em apart, clean and paint them.

Some questions and concerns: help

I am considering using a battleship grey epoxy paint for the saw table and reservoir.  Is this a good coating to apply?  Suggestions for an assortment of blades to buy would also be appreciated (6").  It's a 1/4 HP motor so I hope that is sufficient to cut rock because the motor was most of the postage.  Hate to think I could have ditched the motor (option in bidding) and bought a new one.  Lastly, any particular belts recommended or auto shop purchase OK?

I'm not sure if the pics will attach dunno

Thanks for any suggestions.

Ken S.


* RR1.JPG (1.32 KB, 64x48 - viewed 180 times.)

* RR2.JPG (1.34 KB, 48x64 - viewed 165 times.)

* RR3.JPG (1.23 KB, 64x48 - viewed 162 times.)

* RR4.JPG (1.28 KB, 64x48 - viewed 164 times.)

* RR5.JPG (1.34 KB, 64x48 - viewed 164 times.)
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jakesrocks
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 06:23:06 pm »

I'd leave the saw table unpainted. You're gonna be running a lot of rock & rock grit across the table. Paint will be a mess in no time at all. Just dry the table after use, and give it a quick spray of WD40.

I'm using a 1/4 HP motor on my 6" RR, and have had no problems.

A belt from the auto parts store should give you a couple years of hard work, or many years of easy to moderate use. Adjust your belt so it isn't too tight. With the belt on, you should be able to press the center of the belt down 1/2" with just a little thumb pressure.

All sorts of inexpensive 6" blades out there. Buy a few cheapies to use until you get used to that saw, then go for more expensive blades.
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kennyg
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2015, 10:27:21 am »

I have been running a RR for years too, Since you have a lathe I would turn a longer shaft for it and you can have the start of a 6" cabbing unit. I have a 10" saw and 8" cabbing unit and can run both at the same time with a 1/3 motor. I'm not sure how big your Unimat is I have a 7x14 mini lathe that will do nicely for a 14" or bigger if I go through the head stock.
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Ken S.
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2015, 10:53:59 am »

Jake thanks for the advice regarding the saw tabletop and Kenny your absolutely right I'll have to look at turning a longer shaft.  First I just want to get it smoothly running.

Thanks again guys.
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Debbie K
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2015, 05:54:22 pm »

Ken:

I tried to look at your pictures but all I got were thumbnails. I was trying to see the condition of the reservoir and the top. I repainted and epoxied and fiberglassed the reservoir of mine, so I could change to water if I wanted to, but ended up using oil.

I wanted to see the top to see if yours was buggered the way mine was; the plate's slit was so large that rock slices were continually falling into the reservoir and I had to make a plexiglass plate on top to keep that from happening so often, especially with thin slices.

Good to know you know how to work with a Unimat; I recently acquired one and took it apart and cleaned it up, too. I've only done very remedial work on it, mostly truing up bar stock and the like. Mine's a Unimat 3; what kind do you have?

Debbie K
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Ken S.
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2015, 07:17:17 am »

Deb:

Sorry for the pic size, I should have enlarged the ebay photos hide.

The saw and motor just arrived at my PO so I will be able pick it up later today (have to run some errands for the mrs.) I looked at the photos and it does look like the slot is at least 3/8", so I 'll consider your suggestion.

My unimat I think is a DB200, but don't quote me.

Questions: help

Is oil better to use as a lubricant than water on this small saw? I thought only the larger saws required oil?

second question.......

I've seen two RR trim saws on you tube. The first, setup like I purchased had the motor off to the side, a belt going to the arbor on the right and the blade rotated towards the front and down into the reservoir.  Another setup showed the motor directly behind the RR, still the arbor was on the right with a belt but since the motor was turned around the blade rotated from the front out of the reservoir and back down at the back.

Which set up is correct to cut rock??? dunno

Even though the blade doesn't have teeth like a wood saw, I would think that you would want the blade rotation pushing down the material onto the table for stability (scenario 1) rather than the blade possibly lifting the material off the table and maybe out of your hand. I 'm assuming that the cuts are made from the front.  I wouldn't want to cut wood on a table saw using scenario 2.

As always advice is both appreciated and used.

Regards,

Ken S.
 


 
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jakesrocks
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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2015, 07:55:58 am »

I use water with Lubri Cool in mine.

Both motors were right. On most modern motors you can remove the wiring cover and reverse 2 wires, which reverses the rotation of the motor. Mine is set up with the motor behind. With both setups the blade will rotate forward & down.

If your motor still has the data plate on it, there should be a wiring diagram which will show which wires to swap to change rotation.

When I bought my motors, they came wired for counter clockwise rotation. One was OK for the RR trim saw. One had to be changed to run clockwise. This was done by reversing the red & black wires.

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Debbie K
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2015, 09:04:35 am »

Ken:

What Don said. I didn't know it was so easy to reverse the rotation; Thanks, Don!

I use oil, just think it cuts better and I don't need to worry about rust. It's a personal preference; oil is messier but my saw is in a place where that's not a real concern for me. I had two six inch saws with identical blades; one in water and the other in oil and it seemed to me that the oil one worked better so that's what I settled on. I thought I might be cutting turquoise, rhodochrosite and howelite and wanted water, but the first two have gotten so expensive that I'm not cutting much of them, so went to oil on both.

Debbie L

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jakesrocks
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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2015, 09:39:15 am »

The only problem with reversing the direction is getting those blasted push on connectors off of their terminals. I've ordered a special tool just for removing them, but found that one of those little hooked tools that you use to take lids off of paint cans will work pretty good. Just slide the hook under the connector and use it as you would on a paint can.
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Don

Ken S.
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« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2015, 12:07:00 pm »

 help

Went to the PO and picked up the RR and motor.  RR is in good shape, may not need any paint/epoxy.  Motor runs but is filthy and wires are frayed and need to be changed. 

Jake my motor is vintage (see pic) and I cannot remove the end caps.  The end caps are not proud of the middle section so there's no lip for me to use a wooden stick and hammer on!!! This motor originally must have been mounted up side down because the oil ports are facing down, so that's another reason to take off the end caps.

Any simple suggestions?

There are some openings so I may have to fashion an offset wooden dowel and use a hammer.  Desperation would make me use two strap ties pulling against each other between two trees or two cum-a-longs.
I had time off from teaching so I wanted to clean and get the saw set up in these next two days.

 headbang118

Thanks for any additional help.  Deb thanks also.

regards,

Ken S.



* Motor.JPG (154.01 KB, 768x1024 - viewed 9 times.)
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jakesrocks
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 12:40:11 pm »

I've dealt with vintage motors before. Have 3 or 4 sitting on a shelf in my shed. I've found that if you first mark the end caps & main motor housing with a scribe so that everything goes back together right, Remove all 4 bolts that go through the motor. Remove the pulley. Clean the shaft real good & carefully file off any burs left by pulley set screws. Now take a hammer & scrap of wood. Place the wood on the end of the shaft & give it a couple of moderate taps with the hammer. The opposite end cap should start coming off.  Keep tapping until the end cap is free. You should be able to slide it off of the armature. Now set the open end of the motor housing on a couple blocks of wood & continue tapping on the shaft until it's out of the other end cap. The shaft end cap is almost the hardest to get off. You may have to use a piece of dowling to drive it out of the end cap. Once you have the armature out, You should be able to put a piece of 2X2 wood through the housing and carefully tap the second end cap off. I can't remember which end cap it is, but one will be attached by wires to the motor windings. Be careful not to break these wires.

Don't use a solvent to clean the inside of the motor housing. The winding are coated with varnish which may dissolve. Use an air compressor to blow dirt out. You can finish up with an old towel or other soft cloth. The end caps aren't as touchy. You can use solvent on them. There will be felt rings which hold oil. Let the solvent have a couple days to evaporate out of the felt before putting the motor back together. After the motor is back together, put about 8 or 10 drops of 10 weight or lighter motor oil in each oil hole.

Most of those old motors weren't grounded. When you put a new cord on, attach the green wire to one of the bolts that hold the motor together.
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Ken S.
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2015, 04:04:22 pm »

Thanks, Don will give that a try tomorrow after clearing a work area.

Realized it's Don and not Jake as in jakesrocks!!!  Why not donsrocks??

Thanks again,

ken S.
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jakesrocks
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2015, 04:47:44 pm »

Thanks, Don will give that a try tomorrow after clearing a work area.

Realized it's Don and not Jake as in jakesrocks!!!  Why not donsrocks??

Thanks again,

ken S.

LOL. Jake is my dog, and you don't mess with his rock pile unless I tell him it's OK.
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Ken S.
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 03:49:11 pm »

Don your instructions were on target.  My shooting was a little off, let me explain.

Shaft was smooth so I was using a hammer to hit a wood block and it was moving.  Saw that the end cap was coming off, great. Then it stopped, split one piece of wood. Looked to see again if the cap moved then realized that since I was in a rush to get the end caps off, I forgot to remove the screws that I had put back on yesterday so I wouldn't lose them. bricks

Just glad my wife wasn't around to say:

"Didn't you realize that, you should check first!!!"

Took them off and the rear end cap came off with the next blow. End cap off and no wife lecture, win, win yippie

Took the shaft assembly (armature) out with a dowel (modified split wood) and popped the front end cap off no problem.

help help

Does the windings part (stator) come out of the main housing??  It looks like it is firmly in place.  I don't want to knock it around and break a wire, but it is sure filthy.  Also, I can turn the front end cap so the oil port is upright, but to do that for the rear end cap I will have to splice wire leads onto the wires already there and shrink wrap the connections.  Does this seem OK? 

Thanks for all your assistance.

Ken S.

PS: Give Jake an extra treat on me!!!

   
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 05:00:20 pm »

 hugs32 Jake says thanks. LOL

Did you give yourself a swift kick for forgetting the screws ? saved2

If you have one of those cheap paint brushes around, you can gently brush most of the crud off of the windings. Then use a compressor to blow the rest out.

Don't try to remove the windings. It's too easy to damage them.

As long as you use heat shrink on the wires, it shouldn't hurt to extend them.

One thing I forgot to mention. Clean between the copper sections on the armature, but do it carefully. I use a sharpened popcycle stick to do the job. And polish the armature with very fine sandpaper.

Button her up. Give each bearing a little oil, and give that motor a test spin.  I just clamp mine to the corner of the bench & plug them in.

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Ken S.
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2015, 06:02:06 pm »

Don:

Thanks again.  Probably won't be working on it again until the weekend.  Will let you know how it turns (I hope it turns) out.

Ken
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