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Used DP Genie, 230v 50Hz, HELP

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Author Topic: Used DP Genie, 230v 50Hz, HELP  (Read 1057 times)
fatsistertoo
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« on: August 18, 2015, 02:31:39 pm »

My first post here and I am new to your forum!!
Don't laugh please!
 I Just acquired my first machine, DP Genie, for a great price.  I thought I asked the seller all the right questions, but I missed the most important one.  It is an export model that DP puts out, and I didn't realize that.  I have taken the time to read through as many post on this forum as possible and searched through the topics, so I wouldn't duplicate a thread,  but it looks like this has not been talked about. 
Surely I am not the only idiot who purchase a machine that I can't run here in the US> 
I have looked into the Voltage Converters and Regulators, which looks like a viable solution.  The only change is that this machine is 1500rpm instead of 1800rpm that the domestic model puts out.  I have emailed the company who makes the converters for information.  These seem to be used a lot with machinery purchased abroad.  I have also found a forum that had a similar situation, (expresso machines) and an electrician installed an outlet dedicated to a 230v appliance.  That is not a road I want to take. 
Other than changing the motor out for a 110V @ $495, do any of you have a "Positive" suggestion?  I say positive, because I was so proud of my purchase and the price. Now, I am a little embarrassed.
Actually, hit me with the hard truth please!!!!       dunno
Thanks for any help!!!
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light house jack
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2015, 02:50:43 pm »

To compare the costs involved, if it were me, I would get a quote from a local electrician to put a 230V outlet put in. I had to put in a whole new panel box in my rock room as when several things were running at the same time the lights were dimming in my house and my wife did not like that.
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bobby1
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2015, 04:09:23 pm »

 I'm not sure if the 50Hz motor windings are compatible with the 60Hz power. You might call DP on this. I'm sure they have had to answer these questions before.
Bob
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slabbercabber
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 04:19:58 pm »

The differences are both voltage and frequency.  You can easily find a transformer to double the voltage.  You will also need to deal with the different plug.  There are adapters or you can just hard wire it.  The frequency difference is far more difficult.  A converter will cost as least $200 for one that will disturb radios for all your neighbors and up to around $400 for a good one.  If it were me, I would just run it at 60 hz and live with the increase in speed.  European frequency is 50 hz so you will be running 20% faster.  I doubt you will notice the difference.  It will make the wheels act as if they were harder, but 20% is not that much.
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fatsistertoo
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 09:52:55 pm »

Thanks for your posts.  You know how excited you are when you got your first cabbing machine. 
I stayed up for hours last night reading everything I could find, and it seems like the difference in Hz should not make a difference. 
I looked into a "Step Up/Step Down Converter" for the voltage difference.  This seems like a solution.  What do you guys think?

http://www.220converters.com/Step-Up-Down-Voltage-Converters.htm?pi=2
 
I know everyone is busy, but I would so appreciate it if you would go to the link above and give me your opinion on these Converters.  This is exactly what they are for.  And, these converters go both ways.  110 to 230 and 230 to 110. 
An added bit of info:
Today I received the 2nd of the shipped packages with the trays from the seller (1st was the machine)r, and you will not believe the condition they are in.  He used the trays to make a box and just wrapped paper around them and shipped.  He took the right side wheels and put them in the "tray box" and didn't put paper or bubble wrap to keep them from shifting.  The trays are completely ruined. They are shattered and cracked up.
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Buying puppies and kittens from pet stores, helps to keep the puppy mills in operation.
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slabbercabber
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2015, 06:55:18 am »

Oops, make that 20% slower and acting softer.  As to trays, keep your eyes open for Tupperware type containers that can be cut down to the proper size.
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slabbercabber
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2015, 06:59:55 am »

Yes, that transformer will work fine.  Personally, I would get it one size larger than the motor actual draw.  (Amps X Volts = Watts)
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johnjsgems
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2015, 09:04:42 am »

Good luck with the converter.  Please post how it works.  I have been told there are no converters that work to run motors on different frequencies (except some brush type motors).  It would be really nice if it works.  I would check with Diamond Pacific before trying anything.  You may be able to get the motor rewound by a motor shop for less than a new motor.  Too bad about the pans and hoods.  They are not cheap either.  You already know how much wheels cost.
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2015, 05:39:41 pm »

go to Radioshack and purchase a stepdown voltage converter.

Take a photo of the tag on the machine, photo of the voltage and amps to get the proper converter.

http://voltage-converter-transformers.com/products/vt-100-step-up-down-voltage-transformer-100-watts?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=742482399&gclid=CJ-J7KbquMcCFQmNaQod1-EBPA
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johnjsgems
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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2015, 12:28:04 pm »

Stepping up voltage is not an issue.  The 50Hz is.  You really need to call Diamond Pacific before buying any converter. 
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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2015, 05:30:07 am »

Hi All

I work as maintenance at a food processing plant for 19 years. Many of our machines were made overseas. the 50/60 hertz difference has not been an issue.

Hope that helps.
 
Bless
Shawn
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slabbercabber
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« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 07:20:56 am »

I run several of my woodworking machines on VSD systems.  This allows me to vary the frequency and therefor the rpm at will.  This is a very common way to control industrial equipment and I have never heard of a problem.  The only caveat in that case is fan cooled motors must be run fast enough to allow the fan to cool the coils.
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fatsistertoo
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 12:41:53 am »

                                                                                                   roar
Hi Everyone,  I am bringing you the next chapter in the saga of the "Foreign Object"!!!! 

    I ordered a Simran AC-1000    This is a 1000Watt Step up Converter.  The website that I purchased it from has lots of information on Step up and Step down converter transformers.  These are made for this exact purpose.   Its actually common for shops to purchase machinery and tools from other countries to use here in the US with the help of these converters.  I have to add that I ordered this on Thursday late afternoon, and it was at my doorstep this morning(Saturday) and I didn't choose any expedited shipping.  You gotta love that.  They answered emails within hours, and were very helpful.  Im not trying to promote this company, but if anyone wants there name, just let me know.  And, tons of info on the subject on there website.


    My Genie is a 345Watt machine and they suggest to go 3x your wattage need so that there is no draw when turning it on.  The difference in the 50 to 60Hz should make no difference in the operation of the machine.  I am confident that this converter is the solution.
I plugged it in today and the Genie ran beautifully.  All I need are my new set of wheels I ordered and I can start.
    This actually brings up a new problem though.  I noticed a little vibration in the left set of wheels.  I am hoping that the arbor is not bent, and I wanted to remove the wheels to look at that shaft turning nakedly.  The right side wheels were shipped separately, but the left were shipped on the machine.  I can not crack the left side wheels from there threads.  Is there anyway to lock the arbor from turning so I can get those wheels off?  Im not sure that they have ever been changed because of how worn they are.
Thank You, Thank You for your responses.  I am happy that this Thread has been discussed as we are all learning something new.  I know that I have learned a lot about converters and how they work.
Now if I can get those dang wheels off I will be happy.    thinking13
I am trying to post a couple of pictures, but all I seem to be able to do is add attachments of the pictures.  I'll figure it out eventually.
Thanks Again, And     ~Stay Tuned~


* File Aug 23, 12 35 27 AM.jpeg (454.23 KB, 2349x2518 - viewed 18 times.)

* File Aug 23, 12 37 18 AM.jpeg (730.09 KB, 2448x3264 - viewed 18 times.)
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Buying puppies and kittens from pet stores, helps to keep the puppy mills in operation.
Support your local pet adoption programs, that's where you will find a companion that will thank you everyday.

Michael S Hoover - Redrummd
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« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2015, 10:21:56 am »

You do know that the left side wheels are held on with a reverse thread bolt - right?

it is unlikely the shaft is bent.  Check to see if there is any play in the bearings ay seeing if there is any side play in the shaft as it is much more likely a bearing is bad than a shaft is bent.  Grab the shaft at both ends after removing the left side wheels.  There should be pretty much no ability to move the shaft .

The usual cause of the problem you describe is a wheel or wheels out of balance.  Basically you tighten the bolt holding them on tight but not so tight you cannot use force to turn the wheel. 

You then start with the outside wheel and turn it about 1/4 turn and start the motor to see if the vibration gets worse or better.  if it gets worse or better it is probably the wheel out of balance.  If it does not get better or worse turn it another 1/4 turn in the same direction.  If it still stays the same it is probably the inside wheel out of balance.  If it get worse or better it still is the outer wheel so you turn it again 1/4 turn at a time until the vibration goes away or gets to the point of lowest vibration.

You then do the same thing with the inner wheel to get the vibration to as low as possible.

If you are using three wheels the process is the same but you just do it three times starting with the outside wheel first. 

It is easier to do with only two wheels on the shaft though.
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fatsistertoo
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« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2015, 10:25:59 pm »

Thank you so much Micheal as you have put my mind at ease about the possibility that the shaft is bent.  If it was bent, all of this would have been for naught because Im sure the Genie would have been worthless.   I have brand new wheels ordered and I was kind of thinking that these old wheels might be causing the vibration problem.  I am going to try out what you said.
Yes, I do know the threads are the opposite direction.  Im going to try to tap the wheels to break them free of the shaft.  Slow and steady should win the wheel race I guess.....
 Im determined to get those wheels off this evening as my new set should be here tomorrow.
Cheers~~ yes
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Virginia

Buying puppies and kittens from pet stores, helps to keep the puppy mills in operation.
Support your local pet adoption programs, that's where you will find a companion that will thank you everyday.

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