General information about the Site

This lapidary and jewelry design community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert lapidaries and jewelry designers.

Forum cabochon in the Spotlight

Bob ( bobby1 ) shared this unknown druzy

Forum Jewelry Design in the Spotlight

John shared this beautiful pair of amethyst cufflinks

Forum Jewelry Design in the Spotlight

Mick B shared this stunning opal shell carving

Intarsias / Composites / Bead Making in the Spotlight

Kent shared this really nice Imperial Jasper pendant

Lapidary Related and Forum Member Shop Links

Brian Ababurko Silversmithing Classes / Rock Rollers Club

Dons Lapidary Arts

Idaho Rock Shop

Rare Rocks and Gems

Coyote Rainbow

Lightninghorse

Rocky Treasures

Talking Rocks

Fine Gem Designs

Idaho Rockman

Fine Woodwork and Lapidary

Darkstar Jewelry

DLC Gems

Teton Art Gallery

Art Cut Gems

Woman With A Torch

Lapidary Buy and Sell (Facebook Group)

Lapidary (Facebook Group)

Lapidary Equipment Marketplace (Facebook Group)


Lapidary / Gemstone Community Forum
February 22, 2019, 01:38:33 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Login Register  

Update: bought a Lortone ST-10 (or LS-10?) slab saw - advice needed!

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Update: bought a Lortone ST-10 (or LS-10?) slab saw - advice needed!  (Read 883 times)
Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« on: March 07, 2015, 12:48:40 pm »

 help

An old Lortone ST-10 showed on on craigslist and I'm driving out to check it out tomorrow. A couple of questions:

1.) Any price range advice? He's asking $400 for the ST-10 plus a 6" lortone trim saw. I asked if he'd sell the 10" separately and he agreed - so highest would be less than $400, but is that still very high assuming it's in good shape?

2.) How easy is it to source parts like bearings and housings for these saws? I assume I could buy a replacement motor if needed... how much might that run?

I don't want to sink too much into a project, but it seems like a cool little saw that might help me slab some of the smaller pieces I find/have.

Any other advice or "gotchas" to look out for in "vintage" saws would be appreciated.

Thanks!

-Jeremy
Report Spam   Logged

light house jack
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 261


« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 01:13:05 pm »

I have purchased and sold a fair amount of saws over the past several years. In my opinion, anywhere near $400.00 for even both of those saws is WAY high. If you found a  vintage 10" Highland Park or Covington you can often pick these up for less than $200.00. In fact, if you lived near me, I could give you a 10" Covington with a new blade for $175.00.  I have both of these and they are absolute tanks. In my opinion, Lortone is built no where near as solid. I strongly recommend that you look for a used Covington. They still have all the parts and if you call them about a 1960's saw, they will treat you just like you just purchased a new saw from them. They make you feel like you are their only customer.  So, back to the Lortone. If you need new bearings and a new blade and if you pay in the $400.00 range the math just does not add up. 
Report Spam   Logged

john likes rocks!
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 778



« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 01:15:49 pm »

Not a bad investment @ $300- $400, rock saws hold their value it seems.

Check the power feed motor, and for worn out bushings.

 I have always been able to find free motors for lapidary equipment, friends who have them laying around unneeded.

 Yeah that is a cool saw.

 Good Luck!
Report Spam   Logged

slabbercabber
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 703


« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 01:22:14 pm »

Equipment companys that sell for less than Lortone come and go, but IMHO Lortone is the absolute bottom of what is really useable.  It will work and you can even use it for a long time, but there are much better saws out there.  At that price I would keep looking.
Report Spam   Logged
Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015, 01:33:39 pm »

Hi all,

Thanks for the input so far. Are these comments regarding this model in particular or the Lortone brand in general? I've read some high praise of the older ST-10s so am interested in any experience with this model.

Thanks!

-Jeremy
Report Spam   Logged
Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015, 01:49:14 pm »

Oh, and LHJ - if I were nearby that saw would be mine :)
Report Spam   Logged
deb193
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2067


« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2015, 03:41:53 pm »

i don't understand these comments.

if it is older it is likely the ls-10. there is often confusion. the one that is cube shaped with motor on top. people love those. people here love those.

even if not a ls-10, $400 for two saws is a good price - especially if has motors or blades with some life. no way it is "way high". there are threads here saying used ls-10 for $300 is a good price, and they sell on ebay for 500-550.

i bought used 10 beacon/starr for $140 at madras pow-wow in 2009, with no motor or blade or powerfeed or vise. . if a 10" saw has vise, motor, blade, then even manual feed is worth $275-$325. powerfeed add $50/75. good condition/clean can add a little too.

anyway, you can get bearings easy.

check sold listings on ebay
Report Spam   Logged

- Daniel

(when everything is exceptional, nothing is)

gemfeller
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 621



WWW
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 04:34:53 pm »

Hi all,

Thanks for the input so far. Are these comments regarding this model in particular or the Lortone brand in general? I've read some high praise of the older ST-10s so am interested in any experience with this model.

Thanks!

-Jeremy

Some people who've never used this Lortone saw may be misinformed.  I've owned and used one for 25 years and it's a wonderful saw.  Some other Lortone equipment falls into the "economy" class and isn't so great and there's no question that older big-brand saws like some of those mentioned are fine equipment.  But Lortone got it right with the ST-10.  It's a bit balky in the oil-change department because of the heavy motor on top but there are work-arounds.  In all I think it's an ideal saw for the small shop where there's no need to cut big rough.  Mine produces quality slabs up to around 3.5-inches deep  far faster than I can cab them.

I agree with Daniel that $400 for two saws isn't a bit out of line assuming they're fully-equipped and in good mechanical condition.  My ST-10 even came with a trim saw table which can replace the vise. 

Just my opinion based on actual experience.   
Report Spam   Logged

Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 05:52:08 pm »

Thanks all,

These are older with the green finish. The seller says they haven't been used in 20 years. He's the second owner- bought them 10 years ago and never got around to using them. Tough to tell condition from the images but it does have powerfeed, motor, cover, blade, vise and stand. I'm driving out to take a look tomorrow - we'll see how I do.

-Jeremy
Report Spam   Logged
Rockoteer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3698



« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2015, 06:20:26 pm »

Daniel is correct.  A member here on this forum paid me $350 for one plus freight. (a lot of freight)
Report Spam   Logged

-Gary

Of all the things I've lost..I miss my mind the most.

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.
dickb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 837



« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2015, 06:53:39 pm »

If you feel that he is asking to much, offer less, where your comfortable buying it. Most likely, it will need work to get it up and running. if your giving $300.00 for the 10" and $100.00 for the trim saw, I don't think your getting ripped off unless it is just junk. Good luck negotiating and I hope it goes well for you.

Dickb
Report Spam   Logged

Elegance in Jewelry
69 Retired and Free
GPAA, PLP - Blackhawk G&MC, CVR&MS
Eastern Iowa, Clover SC

finegemdesigns
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 444



WWW
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 09:13:53 pm »

Not sure what is going on here but I've had my blue LS-10 for 30 years and it still works well. I have had to replace bearings and bushings and an occasional switch but this is to be expected with wear and tear. And Lortone even made me a new vise assembly for this saw last year. They still have (at least as of late 2014) parts for this saw.

The design is good. The only weak spot is the drive rod in the vise. It is steel going into the aluminum of the vise and wears down the hole. I have a video which shows how I fixed this issue:



When you go to see the saw make sure you wiggle all the moving parts like the vise and arbor. See if there is any movement and how much. Also see if he will actually show something being cut and check how square the slabs are. Lastly check for the obvious stuff like corrosion and broken and cracked parts like the hood.

A good motor and blade also add value so factor that in also. If it checks out you could offer $300 and see what happens.
Report Spam   Logged



deb193
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2067


« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 09:51:17 pm »

if the guy never got it running in 10 years, you wont get a demo.

if the bearings turn smooth by hand, $300 to $375 is a good price.

personally I would take the both for $400. it is a reasonable price and no reason to rip the guy off - that may be you one day
Report Spam   Logged

- Daniel

(when everything is exceptional, nothing is)

Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015, 06:29:09 am »

Thanks to all - good advice here.

No cutting possible - he's never bought oil for it. He said he ran it and his wife said it was noisy. I'll check bearings, bushings and the vise components pointed out in the video (thanks!).

Definitely not looking for a steal - just a good idea of value. If it seems to have issues from sitting for so long I may offer a little lower to account for work/parts that may be needed to get it running. There's a little more risk being that I can't see it work, which I believe should be reflected in price vs. a "daily driver".

Thanks again for the good info, I'll report back how it turns out.

-Jeremt
Report Spam   Logged
catmandewe
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1159



WWW
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015, 09:59:19 am »

That is a decent price, if you decide you don't want it then pick it up for me and I will send you the money.

Tony
Report Spam   Logged





Get free shipping and/or discounts on products at Cabking by using the following link.
http://cabking.com/ref/IdahoRockShop/
mirkaba
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2303



« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2015, 01:31:27 pm »

Thanks for the video Finegemdesigns. The hole where the crossfeed crank runs through has worn on mine. Next fix! My LS-10 has been rebuilt a couple times. Bearings and bushings are still get-able. I just ordered the split nut for the feed assembly from Lortone and they were great to deal with. I love my old LS-10 It has been a great saw, easy to work on and has sawed LOTS of slabs. I gave  450.00 for mine (used) many moons ago and it has payed for itself many times over. Good Luck.........Bob
Report Spam   Logged

Bob

Gathering dust in Montana.
Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2015, 03:42:28 pm »

Ok, so here's how it went down:

He had the saw set up on a table, and after I checked it out, volunteered to fire it up. Blade spun, but autofeed wasn't turning. He took the cover off the autofeed, and we could see that the motor was not turning. He unplugged, moved the rotor in the motor by hand a few times and tried again. The rotor would turn a few times, then slow and stop.

At this point, I was trying to figure out if I wanted a new project or not. The saw looked pretty nice - it would be a sweet addition to the shop if I could get it working. While I was thinking, he said that he should have checked the drive before listing it, but it worked when he bought it. He offered to try to get a new drive for me, then after a minute, offered that if I wanted to take on the drive myself he'd let me have it for $200, including a sturdy table to put it on. I accepted, and brought home a new project.

Here's where things get interesting.  help

When I got it home, I set it up and plugged it in. While taking pictures, I was resting my hand on the frame and got the tatoo-needle sensation of 120V on my hand. Not good!  omg

Out came the circuit tester and yes, indeed, the entire saw was energized. After much troubleshooting, I've isolated the source to the autofeed. Connect the hot end of the coil and the saw goes hot. So for now the autofeed is on the kitchen table.

Questions:

1.) Any idea where I can get a replacement drive for the autofeed?
2.) Any idea what failure mode would cause the drive unit to pass 120V to the drive shaft (and hence the entire saw)?

The saw looks really neat, and I'm hopeful I can get it back in shape. (And thankful I was wearing boots so that I only got a small amount of current - just enough to know what was going on).

The restoration journey begins!

-Jeremy



* ST-10.jpg (134.83 KB, 576x480 - viewed 9 times.)

* ST-10 2.jpg (132.37 KB, 576x480 - viewed 8 times.)

* Vise.jpg (119.45 KB, 576x480 - viewed 7 times.)

* Autofeed.jpg (91.64 KB, 384x576 - viewed 9 times.)

* motor.jpg (117.02 KB, 576x384 - viewed 6 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
deb193
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2067


« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2015, 04:19:01 pm »

it is in good shape and you got a deal at $200.

I think you can put the motor for the LS12 saw in there. Lortone still sells it. You may have to source a new coupling because the motor shaft and the thread rod size have changed a little over the years.

the motor should not be able to turn in the box,but if it does, it can push against one of the wires connected to the switch. just re-insulate those 3 wires. there should also be a plate that goes on the motor to keep it from rotating in the box.

http://www.lortone.com/pdf/LS12C_Parts_List.pdf

plate is part# 052-22
Report Spam   Logged

- Daniel

(when everything is exceptional, nothing is)

Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2015, 04:27:54 pm »

Hi Deb,

Thanks for the info.

The juice is somehow making it from the hot side of the coil to the drive shaft. The unit does have the anti-rotating plate in place, and wiring in the box is ok.

I'll give Lortone a call tomorrow and see if they have the drive unit.

The rotor spins freely and still turns the shaft (had to hand-spin a lot to get a little movement due to the ratio.) It's a shame I can't get a new coil as that seems to be the failure point.

-Jeremy

Report Spam   Logged
deb193
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2067


« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2015, 04:59:10 pm »

the motor is about $80 if I recall. you can get a cheaper  4rpm gear motor surplus if the size is about right.
Report Spam   Logged

- Daniel

(when everything is exceptional, nothing is)

catmandewe
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1159



WWW
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2015, 08:51:09 pm »

Take the wrap off the coil on the motor and check for a broken wire in there, that is usually the problem, solder it back together and rewrap the coil, that should fix it.

Nice find!

Tony
Report Spam   Logged





Get free shipping and/or discounts on products at Cabking by using the following link.
http://cabking.com/ref/IdahoRockShop/
dickb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 837



« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2015, 09:24:19 pm »

A volt/ohm meter would be a big help here. There should be no connection between either black wire and the steel frame of the motor. If you get a reading on the meter that shows the winding is in contact with the frame and shows continuity, then the motor is bad. It no continuity, then you should be able to connect a 110 volt wire to each black wire and the motor should run. The area around 7:00 an the winding that shows orange worries me. That may be where your ground is. I can't see the other side of the motor but if it's bad you should replace it rather than try and repair. Next time you may not get a tickle. Also. the ground can possible be in the rest of the wiring or switches. A GFCI will definitely protect you in this case. If the GFCI kicks out, the problem has not been fixed.

Hopefully, you can find someone local that understands electricity to help you with this.

Dickb
Report Spam   Logged

Elegance in Jewelry
69 Retired and Free
GPAA, PLP - Blackhawk G&MC, CVR&MS
Eastern Iowa, Clover SC

Mark
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5569



WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 03:49:52 am »

That is a pretty clean looking saw.  For $200, it seems like a really good deal.  Hope it all turns out well for you.  Also, look at it as a learning experience.  You are getting to know your new saw inside and out and will be that more knowledgeable if anything else wears out and you will be able to handle it. 

The more i read about members buying used saws, the more it makes me want to go out next time and find a cheap but decent saw.  I have been one of those wasteful consumers that always had to buy everything new, like cars, SUVs, slab saw, Genie, etc.  It was great having new, but the people that got my toys after me, got great deals and saved a ton of money.  By restoring your saw, you can gain great insight into its construction quality and how it works, and that can give you a much better experience in the long run.  Good luck and enjoy your new saw.
Report Spam   Logged

Rockoteer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3698



« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2015, 07:52:45 am »

Nice saw and a sweet deal.  Even with a bad drive motor you didn't get hurt.  I would just replace it.  I recall finding  several of them on E-Bay.  I have a ST-10 and love it.
Report Spam   Logged

-Gary

Of all the things I've lost..I miss my mind the most.

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.
donsstoneimages
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 173


« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2015, 10:42:55 am »

I love the 10 inch lortone saws.  I have 3 and mine have worked great.  If the saw was energized it probably was a loose wire in the front mounting that holds the feed mechanism.  Just take it off and see what loose wires there are.  You might not even need to get a new feed motor.
Report Spam   Logged

johnjsgems
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 924


« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2015, 11:35:46 am »

Lortone is notorious for being the "bargain priced low end" equipment supplier.  Everything works and made in USA and low price lets many get into an otherwise high priced hobby.  The exception to the rule is the old Lortone 10" saw.  At Quartzsite there is often a line of people wanting to buy used ones for $400-$500.  I'm no fan of Lortone but the old 10" saw is believed by most people to be among the best saws ever built.  Why they stopped making it is baffling to me.  I would buy the feed motor from Lortone.  Green was pretty old and preceded the gold that preceded the baby blue.  Lortone can tell you the age when you call but I think early 70's.
Report Spam   Logged
DonniesTreasures
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3073


I just love the surprises!


WWW
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2015, 12:26:23 pm »

I have the same saw.  Got it used from someone who also bought it used.  It is a great saw & a real workhorse.  I totally agree with what Mark said as I have had to do a couple of things to mine.  It has been a wonderful learning experience.  I'd say you totally got a bargain on that one & once you get'er running you will be totally happy with it!
Report Spam   Logged

DonniesTreasures
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3073


I just love the surprises!


WWW
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2015, 12:37:43 pm »

Thank you very much, finegemdesigns for that video!!!!  yes  I do believe that is the issue with my saw right now & I couldn't figure out how, what, when or why to correct it.  Your retrofit should work the same with the LT-10, shouldn't it?
Report Spam   Logged

Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2015, 01:46:28 pm »

Thanks again to all for the great info.

DonniesT - what was the symptom your saw was showing that you think might be attributed to the loose cross-feed?

Thanks!

-Jeremy
Report Spam   Logged
DonniesTreasures
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3073


I just love the surprises!


WWW
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2015, 02:16:09 pm »

Jeremy, it's just that the handle used to move the vise forward & backward is very loose feeling. 
Report Spam   Logged

finegemdesigns
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 444



WWW
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2015, 05:50:40 pm »

Thank you very much, finegemdesigns for that video!!!!  yes  I do believe that is the issue with my saw right now & I couldn't figure out how, what, when or why to correct it.  Your retrofit should work the same with the LT-10, shouldn't it?

I think it probably would work the same since the units are very similar in design. It's actually rather amazing that these saws work well for decades with this built in issue.
Report Spam   Logged



Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2015, 06:33:47 pm »

Well, After a relocation, new job and unpacking I finally found the time to replace the bearings and rebuild the drive. Been cutting a few small slabs!

One question remains - Does anyone know how to align the rails with the blade? It seems to be a wee bit off - on longer cuts one side of the cut is free and the other will skim the blade. The rails don't seem to be in slotted holes and the arbor just sits in the bearing straps. Ideas?

Thanks!

-Jeremy
Report Spam   Logged
finegemdesigns
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 444



WWW
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2015, 11:03:03 pm »

I've usually found it's easier to adjust from the blade side rather than the vise/rails side for parallel.
Unless of course your rails are horribly off center.

There are a couple of methods. You need to loosen the bolts on the arbor brackets slightly to adjust the blade position. Then if you are an engineer type and have a dial indicator




you can clamp it in the vise and use it to measure the runout as you push it in and out against the blade.

The other more crude method is to clamp a magic marker pen in the vise with the point out and then brush this in and out so the pen tip just touches the blade surface. This will give you hints on how to adjust your blade angle to parallel.
Report Spam   Logged



Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2015, 05:15:27 am »

Hi, thanks for the advice on adjusting the blades vs rails. I assume by arbor brackets you mean the metal straps that hold the bearings? On this model that's the only thing that holds the arbor in place. I'll have to see if I can find a way to use them to adjust the angle of the arbor.

-Jeremy
Report Spam   Logged
finegemdesigns
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 444



WWW
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2015, 12:45:21 pm »

Yes that is what I meant. The straps that hold the bearings.
Report Spam   Logged



Talusman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 417


« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2015, 04:00:15 pm »

Great, thanks for the advice. I'll give it a shot.

-Jeremy
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum | Buy traffic for your forum/website

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy