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December 11, 2018, 05:35:28 pm
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Have you ever soldered gold-filled sheet or wire?

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Author Topic: Have you ever soldered gold-filled sheet or wire?  (Read 687 times)
Carol M
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« on: February 17, 2015, 12:10:37 pm »

Hi,
I work with Argentium Sterling and can't bring myself to work in 'real gold' yet, but I do have some 14 kt gold filled sheet and wire.
I also have both 14 kt gold solder and all the Argentium Sterling solders.

Has anybody ever solderd gold-filled sheet or wire??

Any special Do's or Don'ts or Tips or experiences [good or bad]?? dunno
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Carol M
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dickb
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2015, 11:00:55 pm »

Carol:

Go on utube and search gold soldering and gold smithing.  Gold solders like silver only at a hotter temp and you would need oxy/ acet torch to get it hot enough. I use a Smith "little torch".

Dickb
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Carol M
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2015, 11:06:23 pm »

Thanks Dick.
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Carol M
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 11:37:25 am »

I've soldered gold fill using 14k gold solder. the trick is not to buff off all of your gold when polishing...
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Carol M
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 11:38:13 am »

Good point.  Thanks Don.
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Carol M
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T P
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 01:36:08 pm »

I was told by one of my teachers that when you are soldering the gold filled the act of heating the wire to soldering temperature causes part of the gold fill to alloy with the underlying metal in the end you have a gold brass of gold silver  alloy, that pretty much defeats the purpose of being gold filled.
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Carol M
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 02:17:27 pm »

I think that's true with regular 925 sterling and gold-filled material.

When I asked RioGrande, I was talking about Argentium Sterling which is 935 and has less copper [5% instead of 7.5%] and so it doesn't conduct heat the same way as 925.  They said it could be done so I may just take a small piece of scrap Argentium and a small piece of gold-filled wire and coat the GF wire with the barrier flux and 'give it a go'. 

What the hell.  'nothing ventured, nothing gained'.  If the whole thing shrivels into a blob.....life will still go on on this planet.
And I may try it using several 'variables' to see if I can figure it out.

Thanks to all who replied.......GERONIMO!!   ura
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Carol M
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T P
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 06:25:02 pm »

the gold fill and the underlying metal in the wire will still alloy when heated no matter what you are soldering the Gold filled wire to 
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dickb
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 02:14:14 pm »

Lets clear something up that I have not seen addressed. To solder silver and gold filled, you need to use silver solder, Using gold solder will cause the silver to melt before the gold solder reaches flow temp. The key point is the solder needs to be picked for the lowest melting point metal.

Yes, you will get some silver on the gold at the contact point, but that can be controlled by not using more solder that the join requires. This is true when any two different metals are used. Think solid gold, gold filled, Platinum, Silver, Copper, Brass. Bronze, etc.

I hope this helps. Just remember to use the right solder, flux and control the heat to bring all components to the flow temp at once.

Dickb
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Carol M
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 03:51:11 pm »

Lets clear something up that I have not seen addressed. To solder silver and gold filled, you need to use silver solder, Using gold solder will cause the silver to melt before the gold solder reaches flow temp. The key point is the solder needs to be picked for the lowest melting point metal.

Yes, you will get some silver on the gold at the contact point, but that can be controlled by not using more solder that the join requires. This is true when any two different metals are used. Think solid gold, gold filled, Platinum, Silver, Copper, Brass. Bronze, etc.

I hope this helps. Just remember to use the right solder, flux and control the heat to bring all components to the flow temp at once.

Dickb

Excellent point, Dickb, and I totally forgot to even look.
I just looked at the RioGrande info for the wire solders I have and it says -

Re 14Kt Yel. Gold Solder, the 'liquidous temp' is
Easy is 1340 F
Extra Easy is 1295 F

Re Argentium Sterling Solder,
Easy is 1331 F

So, actually in this instance....with Argentium Sterling stick solder.  They're pretty close to each other, but Extra Easy 14kt yel Gold wire solder seems to 'win' in that it's 1295 F.
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Carol M
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dickb
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 10:43:11 pm »

Carol:

That may work, but you might like the look of the Ag silver better. Try a couple test joins to decide. Don't forget that the gold filled wire probably has an alloy of brass, copper and/or silver for the core. All of those should be okay with air/propane, but I like my little torch with a small tip for delicate work.

Good Luck and let us know how it went.

Dickb
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Carol M
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 11:12:16 pm »

Carol:

That may work, but you might like the look of the Ag silver better. Try a couple test joins to decide. Don't forget that the gold filled wire probably has an alloy of brass, copper and/or silver for the core. All of those should be okay with air/propane, but I like my little torch with a small tip for delicate work.

Good Luck and let us know how it went.

Dickb

Very true.  Re torches, yes, I also have a Smith Little Torch.  Mine is oxy/propane.  Not the same gas but otherwise the same range of tip sizes.  I love the control and the small size of very hot flame.  You can go in close and hot if you want.....or broad if you need that. 
Re solder color, I suspect, the best color would be the match to the base color if it's a wire on a sheet.  If it's just wire alone, the question is easier.
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Carol M
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"People who never make mistakes.....probably never do anything!"

Isotelus
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2015, 09:13:12 am »

I also use a Smith Little Torch and like them a lot.

On the gold filled solder front I have used a Hoover and Strong solder they list as " Low Yellow " that is in with their repair grade solder. It is for filled work melts at 1260 and flows at 1305.  It works very well with some filled material that has more a bronze type core than a brass type core. It is a very pale yellow.

They also carry a 5kt Yellow Solder listed as all purpose yellow Melts @ 1110 and flows at 1290.

Do experiment on scrap before going on to more serious work. The above were very helpful on filled work for me.
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Bryan
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2015, 09:53:41 pm »

The best way to use gold filled bezel you use EASY silver solder, the best way is to do pick soldering from the back.If done properly you will not see the joint. YOU CANNOT spend a lot of time sanding, if you pickel it and it comes out copper you have sanded to much. I use extra easy to solder to the silver back plate.

If you are in need of gold filled serrated bezel I have a quanity of 3/16x 30 for 5 feet for $20.00 dollars, 1/8 x 30 gauge
5 feet for $15.00, much cheaper then most places. shipping will be around $2.00.This is 50 year old bezel, I have several hundred feetif needed.

milto
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Carol M
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2015, 12:29:40 am »

Does anyone have any photos of gold-filled things they've soldered???  dunno
I'd love to see them. 
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Carol M
"Pursue Your Passions....."
"Imagine the Possibilities!"
"Mistakes are simply a form of practice!"
"People who never make mistakes.....probably never do anything!"



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