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December 11, 2018, 06:48:04 pm
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What to use to back a cab?

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mdfa.ca
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« on: November 03, 2014, 05:11:39 pm »

 help

Hello everyone,

Here's a question that has me stumped. I received a custom order for a pendant to be made with the client supplied cab of golden rutilated quartz, set in sterling silver.  A beautiful stone. The client has requested the stone be set on a black background to show off the gold needles in the cab. So, here are my 4 possible ways of doing it (that I can think of):

Option 1:  colour the inside of the setting with permanent marker.
Cons: Not sure how permanent this is. I think it would be ok as long as the pendant never gets wet or cleaned. I'm worried that if the client ever got it cleaned, the coating will degrade.

Option 2: piece of black paper behind the cab.
Cons: could it shift and even squeeze out from behind the stone? And should the pendant become wet, paper would pretty much dissolve.

Option 3:  piece of black plastic (like form a garbage bag) again, behind the stone.
Cons: plastic being slippery it probably has an even better chance of either shifting behind the stone, bunching up or slipping out. Also, I know plastic will degrade over time so it could start shredding in a few years.

Option 4:  a piece of thin felt from a craft store.
Cons: I'm not sure... How long does felt last? What would happen to it if it became saturated with jewelry cleaning solution? It would also add quite a bit of height to the stone.

I'm sort of leaning towards Option 4 but I feel I don't have enough information to truly make an informed decision.

What do you guys think? What is the best option? Are there any other I should go with?
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2014, 06:05:34 pm »

Another option would be to blacken the inside of the setting with liver of sulphur. 

Yet another would be to mix lampblack (candle soot) with epoxy to blacken it and coat the back of the setting with it.  That would probably be the most durable way.

Rick

 
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PhilNM
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2014, 06:32:57 pm »

Use what we turquoise folks do. Basanite or basalt.  sliced real thin. IT takes a polish, so when you're donre you can polish the back a bit.
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2014, 06:42:05 pm »

all good suggestions and another is some black jade
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2014, 06:49:04 pm »

I think the black resin may be best. adding to the stone height even slightly seems to be undesirable. the basanite or jade would be thicker than felt.

I gathered the back was to be sheet silver, so having a material that polishes is moot. the liver of sulfur was my 1st thought, but it would not be immune to jewelry cleaner.

a good quality resin with lampblack would be thinnest and most durable
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2014, 09:06:03 pm »

Doing a doublet with basanite, black jade, or similar would stand up the longest, but something like black mylar or lamp black would also work if the client doesn't mind taking extra care when cleaning and is aware that it might need to be rebacked at some point. I'd avoid things like permanent marker (changes color over time) and many plastics/resins that, once the stabilization additives lose their effectiveness, eventually release acids that destroy silver (e.g., PVC-based and others many of which will migrate into the silver causing "silver disease" that is almost impossible to stop once it starts). The Canadian Conservation Institute has some online resources that would be good to consider when creating jewels (such as this piece on long term storage of silver objects).
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 09:22:57 pm »

good point about acid release - but aren't there conservation grade resins?

maybe best after all to design a setting that can tolerate a 2mm stone backing.
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 09:42:10 am »

Another good one I use all the time is JB weld. Sets up hard as steel, and you can make it as thin as you want. I typically smear the back of a cab with it, then press it down hard onto a piece of flex plastic to get it as thin as I can. 24 hours later, I peel it off the plastic and off to the grinding and polishing wheels we go.
I also use basanite (aka black jade I'm told)  slabbed at 1/16th inch, and it's strong as steel also. But if you're going to cover the backing with silver, your best bet is the JB Weld, which dries dark dark grey.
Maybe an old phonograph record, then ground thin? Bit I'm not a fan of this method. I have a friend who uses them for all his backing, and while he has excellent cabbing skills, I just don't like the affect/effect of the vinyl.
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 10:39:32 am »

I use Black Jade Actinolite to back turquoise. The only problem is getting the slab saw to cut these super thin slabs with consistency. The ideal is probably 1mm-2mm. I will be retrofitting my 10" Lortone soon with a new tight vise carriage so should be able to offer these thin slabs again on eBay. One thing to keep in mind is that there is a huge loss of material when slabbing this thin. You lose as much weight from the saw as you get in slabs.

http://www.zbestvalue.com/LabReports.htm

http://www.finegemdesigns.com/blackjadesnavigation.htm
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2014, 10:51:54 am »

good point about acid release - but aren't there conservation grade resins?
It is difficult to tell when the ingredients of proprietary compositions are likely not to be labeled. When they are, chlorine, sulfur and similar compounds are warning signs. Organic compounds can also change over time as the ingredients slowly interact. Because of the short marketing cycles for these products, the only testing is going to be laboratory "accelerated aging" (which seldom accounts for the breakdown of stabilization, anti-oxidation and/or anti-UV additives over time). By the time real life 10-20+ years testing results come in, the product is almost always long gone from the market.

Another possibility would be thin black glass (1-2 mm). If you have access to a kiln, you might also consider fusing black enamel powder to the back of the setting. Either would be long-term stable. Enameling is something I've always wanted to do again. I know you are supposed to also be able to fuse the enamel using a torch, but have never tried that. Has anyone here done enameling with a torch?
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2014, 11:41:32 am »

We tend to think of black for a rutilated quartz stone but there are other very unique backings. I know of one jeweler who backs his rutilated quartz with deep blue lapis and the result is stunning.  On the other hand, a simple and quick solution which I have used is colored fingernail polish.  I have one stone which is commonly called garden quartz which contains many inclusions including rutile which I backed with dark green polish and it is pretty special.
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2014, 12:42:45 pm »

I wanted to thank all of you who have replied to my query. You have pointed out some other pitfalls with some of the materials that I did not consider and offered me many more options. It would seem I have opened a pandora's box LOL.  I thought resin was a good idea but yes, the chemicals in resins are a big unknown so I think I'll let that one go. The idea of creating a doublet is a tantalizing one and would solve another problem:  as I was looking at the stone in more detail, I realized it's cut unevenly. It's shaped as an elongated shield and when you look at its profile from the long side, you notice the pointier end is a lot lower than the rounded end. Hmmm, I'm sure making a doublet would allow me to even it out with some creative polishing. But, and this is a big BUT, I have no experience with making them whatsoever and given that this is not my cab but supplied by my client, I am very cautious of learning on it. So I will have to pass this time.

Not too keen on the nail polish either, simply from personal experience. When I put it on my nails, it lasts about 1 day so I am doubtful it is going to last years in a piece of jewelry.Which leaves me with two options:  black enamel (I do have a kiln) but it would not solve my problem of crooked stone, or JB Weld (would have to see where to get it.) I don't really want to attach it to the stone itself, but if this product is what I think it is, it should not be a problem to mold it in a way that will compensate for the irregular table of the stone.

Hmmmm, now that I thought about the JB Weld, I just had another idea... Black polymer clay! I can't believe this hasn't occured to me from the start. I can mold it right inside the setting and bezel to compensate for the stone height and bake it right in, at which point it should become inert. Does anyone know if that would be safe for the silver and the stone?
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2014, 01:14:44 pm »

I use Basanite for doublets and triplets. I have been using black electricians tape for backing/padding on crystaline Opal with good luck.
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2014, 01:33:01 pm »

I have noticed that with doublets that the cab really "pops" once the basenite is epoxied to the cab. Prior to epoxy  you can hold the cab on top of the basenite and get a general idea of what it will look like, but it looks way better once it's glued. I think it is because the epoxy fills in any tiny gaps and  the light transmits all the way through the cab

I am mentioning this since you are talking about using felt, paper, or plastic. I don't think it will have the look as good as something that is actually bonded to the stone like, basenite or resin.
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 01:54:30 pm »

What kind of epoxy does one use for gluing the cab onto the doublet?
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2014, 03:53:00 pm »

330 epoxy is the standard for doublets and dries water clear. I recently seen a new black 220 epoxy. The old 220 epoxy dried a amber color but the new black stuff is something I want to try on a future project.
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2014, 04:04:34 pm »

330 2 part clear epoxy.
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2014, 04:58:33 pm »

Black polymer clay! I can't believe this hasn't occured to me from the start. I can mold it right inside the setting and bezel to compensate for the stone height and bake it right in, at which point it should become inert. Does anyone know if that would be safe for the silver and the stone?
Polymer clays won't work over the long term. Those do contain PVC and plasticizers which are bad news for metal  (the acids they release over time are very bad for silver, copper and some stones—I've personally experienced severe etching damage and silver disease after only a few years stored in proximity to PVC). On the other hand, hi-fired PMC-type metal clay would have all the binder burn out, leaving just metal, but I don't know whether anyone makes a black bronze clay.

If the back of the cab is uneven, you could set it in black plaster (lamp black + plaster) or hard pitch. Both were used for backing gems in Georgian and Victorian mourning jewelry (even some of King Tut's gems were set using bitumen that had been boiled to get rid of the volatiles so that it wouldn't soften or ooze at normal temps). Some petroleum tars are high-sulfur, though, which might cause problems on silver and copper. Similar can also be made from conifer pitch + charcoal. I haven't heard of significant corrosion problems with old gems set in pitch, though it could also be that damage did occur in many piece, which we don't know about simply because they got trashed.
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2014, 11:54:14 pm »

I just did these tonight with Epoxy 330 and Black Jade Actinolite:



Almaden Cinnabar from Spain. Slab is 1.3mm thick. I will cut these out tomorrow after epoxy sets.
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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2014, 06:20:39 am »

>I have been using black electricians tape for backing/padding on crystaline Opal with good luck.<


I've also been using electrical tape.  Highly inert.  If the stone is opaque I tape it directly to the back to fill in any gaps and make the setting more solid.  It's easy to trim with a scissors once it's stuck on.  If the stone is clear I tape it to the silver sheet in the back of the stone.  I don't tape it directly to the stone if the stone is clear as it's possible the adhesive might not stick evenly.  I generally use the very thick form of the electrical tape (you have to look a little harder for it at Home Depot).

For the opposite effect (white or silver backing, works great for Montana agate!) I now use the inside of my salad croutons bags. 
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2014, 11:32:03 am »

Another one I forgot is Jet. Makes a nice black backing.

I'm running out of basanite, anyone know where to buy some nodules about 4 to 6 inch size up to ?

Thanks
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2014, 02:13:41 pm »

Thank you, Rocks2dust for the info on Polymer Clay. I thought it was supposed to be inert once cured/baked, I guess not...  It would seem the more I get into this the more complicated it becomes. I truly don't want to attempt a doublet because if I screw anything up, well, it's a nice stone and it's not mine. So I really just don't even want to take those chances. I think I have made up my mind to try the J B Weld product. I'm not going to mate it to the back of the cab, just make a little ramp for it inside the setting, and maybe, if it's not black enough, paint it with model paint?

However, if I wanted to try make a doublet, on another stone, where would I buy the black jade / basanite / jet? And which one works the best?

GregHillier,

When I read your mention of electricians tape I was also surprised. That stuff is so gunky! I can't imagine that it would not start releasing the adherent, especially after being repeatedly heated through contact with skin. Which brand do you use?
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« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2014, 03:55:03 pm »

Jet is easier to work, but weaker, so best used to back thicker, sturdier stones. Basanite and jade are very tough, and good for backing thin, fragile slabs (opal, turquoise, etc.).

Another one I forgot is Jet. Makes a nice black backing.

I'm running out of basanite, anyone know where to buy some nodules about 4 to 6 inch size up to ?
I have a few cobbles left that you can have for the cost of shipping (and I'd be glad if you'd send mdfa a small slab, since my saw is put up and I no longer have slabs). PM me with your postal code, if interested, so I can weigh and tell you what the PO will charge.
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2014, 04:01:55 pm »

PM sent.... if mdfa can wait, be glad to, as long as he/she too pays postage, I think he/she's in Canada by his/her nickname?
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2014, 04:09:53 pm »

I truly don't want to attempt a doublet because if I screw anything up, well, it's a nice stone and it's not mine.

If you're putting a backing of any kind on any stone, you're making a doublet. Even just backing it with JB weld, it just became a doublet, but with one side a gemstone, and the other the backing... so go ahead, you have nothing to lose.
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« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2014, 06:58:04 pm »

Rocks2Dust and PhilNM,

Thank you both for your generosity. I'd love to have a small slab to practice on and I'll gladly pay the shipping price. And I do know what you are saying, Phil, but I won't actually be attaching the cab to the JB Weld. I'm going to form it separately and just sandwich them together in the setting. Well, if it works.

Oh, and by the way, I'm female LOL. I thought I introduced myself a way back but it may have been a different forum.
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« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2014, 08:27:54 pm »

Rocks2Dust and PhilNM,

Thank you both for your generosity. I'd love to have a small slab to practice on and I'll gladly pay the shipping price. And I do know what you are saying, Phil, but I won't actually be attaching the cab to the JB Weld. I'm going to form it separately and just sandwich them together in the setting. Well, if it works.

be sure to use saran wrap between the Jb and everything so you can easily peel it off after you mold everything and it cures.
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2014, 08:15:56 am »

Will do! :-)
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2014, 08:48:13 am »

I think adhering something to the back is a better solution. The slight air space will give a duller look when looking through the cab. I have doublets that I bought in a estate sale that were glued with superglue and have started to separate. The separation from the backing is very apparent and looks bad compared to the area that is still attached.
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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2014, 10:42:58 am »

True. That's why it's always better to glue it on them do your grinding and polishing.m But if she's adamant that she wants it separate, than all we can do is tell her the best way to do things. Personally, I like basanite on stones like turquoise, flower agate, etc, but JB weld on the less expensive material. Basanite can get expensive in the long run. You waste more rock that the resulting slab, so rock that costs $4 per pound ends up $16 per pound usable.... plus cost of epoxy, etc etc.... But it sure ends up pretty! There's a local equivalent stone that's a strong that I can use, but it's brown, not black. Doesn't look near as nice. Historically tho, the local NA silversmiths used to use it for backing before they discovered LP vinyl.
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« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2014, 09:40:31 am »

Had the first run at this last night... Went to the hardware store and was presented with a whole wall of JB Weld LOL. Eenie Meenie Miny Moe... I picked one that was for use in plumbing and water fixes. It's supposed to be impervious to all those bad chemicals, including water, didn't realize it was going to be white. It did set nicely though and I think it will work just fine, but I was sure someone said it's near black. Is there one specific type I should buy?

M
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« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2014, 10:15:20 am »

I have only used the "Original" JB Weld and it is dark gray. http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld/
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« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2014, 10:35:27 am »

Thank you, I'll get that one today.
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« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2014, 11:01:04 am »

Personally I wouldn't want to apply JB Weld to a nice cab. Especially if it is someone elses cab. I would definately set the stone with a black plastic/viny or Electricians tape unattached backing. Just me though.............Good Luck!

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« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2014, 11:04:08 am »

Mirkaba,

I am not attaching, I'm just creating a separate backing which will also shimmy one end of the cab. It's uneven.
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« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2014, 12:32:11 pm »

Not sure if anyone else has suggested this, but why not used the standby 303 epoxy? All you need to do to color epoxy any color you'd like is add a bit of enamel acrylic (I use Testor's brand, available at any hobby shop). A tiny bit -- like enough to coat the bottom third of a toothpick, should be more than enough to color a fair bit of resin.

Come to think of it, why not just use something like acrylic enamel paint? Blast it with a heat gun before it dries to kill any bubbles and cover it (do the same for resin if you go that way instead), and you should be good, I'd think?
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« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2014, 06:56:12 pm »

Your slab is on the way! It went out yesterday.
Phil
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« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2014, 11:11:59 am »

Thanks, Phil! 

I had one of those days last night when whatever you touch just goes south really fast. Among other things I tried fusing a piece of fine silver wire, 18G. Well, now I'm wondering if it was ever FS. Not only did it not fuse but on 3 attempts scaled so badly I can't even clean it in pickle.  Hmmm, I wonder if it's sterling maybe? Or i just don't know what I'm doing LOL. Then I tried soldering a bezel and just couldn't make it work. It either evaporated too quickly or fizzed and spat, literally throwing the solder wire bits all over. I gave up on the third attempt and went to watch TV.  Maybe I'll have better luck today.

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« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2014, 11:25:47 am »

What kind of epoxy does one use for gluing the cab onto the doublet?

I realize I'm late to this topic, but I use Hyxtal to glue up doublets and triplets. It takes longer to set up, but it's easy to de-bubble and it never yellows.
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2014, 08:45:53 am »

I use JB weld and Devcon to make backs for uneven stones like some turquoise and carved fire agates so they can be bezel set. both clean up easily with denatured alcohol, set hard and can be sanded down as needed.
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« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2014, 04:52:12 pm »

It occurred to me just now that there might be consequences to using different methods to back cabs that relate to expansion and contraction due to temperature changes. For example if JB Weld expands at a different rate than your turquoise it seems this could cause the weaker material (in this case the turquoise) to crack. The same could happen to a backing of black jade or basonite that is glued with a rigid substance like super glue.

So really the method that might be best is to use basonite or black jade (or similar) with an epoxy that doesn't harden totally rock hard. Answer 330 epoxy. Hardens hard but not as brittle hard as super glue. Also the glue is slightly thicker so this layer between would allow for some expansion of both backing and gemstone.
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« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2014, 06:45:44 am »

Finegemdesigns, the cab will not be "married" to JB weld. It's just something that will be slipped under the cab to lift it and give it a darker background.
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« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2014, 06:58:08 am »

> For example if JB Weld expands at a different rate than your turquoise it seems this could cause the weaker material (in this case the turquoise) to crack.<

If you'd ever used it, you would know that JB weld cures to a soft semi-flexible material. While I agree that it's likely to expand/contract at a slightly different rate than whatever stone you are using, it is not going to put any significant pressure on your stone and make it likely to crack.

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« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2014, 04:09:13 pm »

> For example if JB Weld expands at a different rate than your turquoise it seems this could cause the weaker material (in this case the turquoise) to crack.<

If you'd ever used it, you would know that JB weld cures to a soft semi-flexible material. While I agree that it's likely to expand/contract at a slightly different rate than whatever stone you are using, it is not going to put any significant pressure on your stone and make it likely to crack.

You are right I never used it. I was thinking it was similar to other "metal" type epoxies that harden very hard.

But your and mdfa.ca's posts don't seem to address the idea that one point of a backing is to strengthen the stone. Especially weaker gems like turquoise.
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« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2014, 01:59:49 pm »

>But your and mdfa.ca's posts don't seem to address the idea that one point of a backing is to strengthen the stone. Especially weaker gems like turquoise. <

Backing a stone with JB weld makes the bottom surface flat.  It also could to some extent probably hold a stone together to make it less likely to crack apart.  Once the bottom of the stone is flat, when you put pressure on the stone as you are bezel setting it it is less likely to crack because the pressure will be better distributed. 

Don't know what to tell you beyond that.  I've used to for fire agate, turquoise, and malachite.  Worked great.  Try it if you like.
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« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2014, 09:23:00 pm »

One thing that may help us understand your dilemma is your other plans on this project.  Full bezel ?  Partial Bezel?  Open back, closed back?   Stone dimensions? 

If the piece is going to be bezeled completely, I'm not sure a paper backing wouldn't be sufficient.  Just choose one that is archival quality, acid/lignen free. 

Or if you do want to lift one end of the stone, perhaps one of the newer jewelry clays/epoxies could work?  Apoxie Sculpt or the new Ceralun clay from Swarovski?
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« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2014, 12:37:55 am »

Paper? What happens when your client wears the piece in the shower or it gets wet in the rain?
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« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2014, 06:49:59 am »

Colored epoxy. I would use flowing epoxy, just make a dam with tape..
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« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2014, 09:27:23 pm »

Paper? What happens when your client wears the piece in the shower or it gets wet in the rain?

If it's sandwiched between a full silver backing and a well bezeled cab water shouldn't be able to reach it.
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« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2014, 06:51:17 am »

I think making a water tight setting is pretty much impossible without a sealant of some kind. This cab is also slightly crooked so no, that won't work. The irregularity of the cab also explains the need to "shimmy" one end of the cab. Honestly, it if were my cab, yes, I would most likely make a doublet out of it. It is going to be a full backing and has been cut last night. I'll try and post some photos as I go. And I pretty much made up my mind to go with JB Weld and black nail polish. The original wasn't really dark enough when cured (rather light-grey) and, because it's basically fluid you have to eye-ball the amounts. This resulted in slightly incorrect proportions and a couple of soft, sticky spots that refuse to cure. The white one cured perfectly ;-)

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« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2014, 10:34:35 am »

I have another question but I'm not sure if I should start a new thread? Well, here goes. Here is the cab:

And here is the design I came up for this cab.


the lines on the setting are natural extensions of the rutile needles in the cab. And here is the question:  I want those lines to be engraved/etched into the silver (using sterling sheet, 22 g) but I'm not sure how to do this? I want clean lines and they will vary in thickness. There will also be 2-3 very thin lines grouped together to simulate the look of the inclusions. So I think stamping is out of the question.

Any suggestions on how to best achieve this effect?

M


* photo 1.JPG (590.39 KB, 1632x1224 - viewed 8 times.)

* AmandaK-OptionB.jpg (56.37 KB, 422x502 - viewed 7 times.)
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« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2014, 10:36:19 am »

I am really having a technically challenging day today. Why are my images not showing up???
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« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2014, 07:02:02 pm »

This project certainly seems to be testing and stretching my abilities. I have another question: how do you handle setting irregular cabs. I don't mean irregular in shape but irregular in the height of the edges of the dome. Here are some pictures. This is a small shield shape.

Here is the view along the long side:

The pointed end of the shield is to the left, the tapered to the right. As you can see, the dome on the left (so bottom of the cab once set) is coming down a lot lower than the other side. But that's not all. Here is the look on the tapered end:


On the bottom left there is a chunk missing. That is not an issue as the insert I created will actually compensate and cradle that. But, if you look closely, you will notice the tapered end of the cab is not even either. It is lower on the right side than the left.

So, how do you set this to make it look straight? Again, I can compensate a bit with the insert, but it is still not as even as I would like it and is significantly lower on the bottom (pointed end) of the cab. Should I file the bezel edge lower on that side so once it's pressed against the cab, it hopefully looks a bit more even with the rest of it?

I've never done anything like this so I'm really lost. I guess I should look at the cabs I set really closely next time LOL.


* AmandaK-ProfLong-cab2.jpg (32.99 KB, 642x277 - viewed 7 times.)

* AmandaK-ThickEnd-cab3.jpg (21.08 KB, 536x222 - viewed 9 times.)
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« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2014, 09:01:32 pm »

Who says they have to be perfectly even? Artistic license says anything the artist likes, goes....  We routinely set uneven cabs. Actually,  almost all of our hand done, free form turquoise cabs are uneven to save on material and enhance the character of the stone.

That said, you could recut the bezel, or even smooth and level out the back of the cab if you wanted. Lots of cabs are made so that the smith making the jewelry can do the final shaping and bezelling.  And usually, (unless it's wirewrap) an uneven cab is compensated for in the bedding when it's put in it's final setting.

Cutting lines in silver? Think engraving, Dremel tool.

Oh... pics didn't make it.
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« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2014, 08:20:51 am »

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong with the pictures. I'm adding them the same way I did in a previous message and I think I'm following the instructions. Hmmm. Well, no matter, you seemed to have understood what I mean, Phil.

OK, I get the artistic thing, but I also have the other side of the brain doing the perfectionism thing. It's always a struggle between the two LOL.

And yes, I did engrave the setting, thank you. I will post a photo, as soon as I figure out how LOL.
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« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2014, 08:36:32 am »

It seems my images only show up if I attach them to the message itself instead of linking to them.
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« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2014, 07:20:22 pm »

It seems my images only show up if I attach them to the message itself instead of linking to them.


links only work if the photo is stored somewhere on the net, not your computer...


You also said:
OK, I get the artistic thing, but I also have the other side of the brain doing the perfectionism thing. It's always a struggle between the two LOL.


Perfection in jewelry is never as interesting as imperfect jewelry. Maybe learn to love the eccentric rather than the boring....
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« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2014, 08:03:41 pm »

I'm learning, I'm learning, Phil. It comes from years of doing super-realistic art in pencil.  And the photos are on photobucket but the linking just doesn't seem to work for me.
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« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2014, 09:51:32 pm »

This is how I do it.... I cut and paste the IMG link from photobucket directly into my message

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« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2014, 08:26:03 am »

Trying an experiment:
http://s37.photobucket.com/user/mdfa/media/Canttrian-nologo.jpg.html
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« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2014, 09:24:22 am »

Regarding uneven bezels on stones, I  frequently have to contour and adjust the bezel height  to match the cut of the stone. This is particularly necessary when setting gem carvings such as fire agate in a bezel.  mark the contour of the stone on the inside of the bezel cup and then carefully grind or file down the bezel to the line and adjust as necessary.

For getting lines in the metal, numerous options...A rolling mill could add texture, but not perfectly lined up with what you have in mind. You could use an engraving tool to engrave the lines in metal but what you're really looking for I think is acid etching. use a resist to mark where you want the lines and then acid etch away the surrounding silver. that would give you raised texture exactly where you want the lines in the cabochon extended onto the metal.  A fourth option would be designing a setting in metal clay.
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« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2014, 02:08:08 pm »

nno no.... use the link that's on the same line as IMG

use the line that I highlighted in this pic:

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« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2014, 08:24:31 pm »

2nd the acid etching.  Also bringing news that E6000 now comes in black and white.


And for pictures, just right click on the picture, copy image address, paste, highlight, and then use the second button on the left above the smilies… looks like a landscape picture. 
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« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2014, 10:58:03 am »

Redrockrods,

I have used an engraver to create the lines where I wanted them. The acid etching would have worked as well, but I wanted the lines to be below the surface of the setting, not raised. It actually worked pretty well, I think. I will try the darn image thing again.

FIrst, it's the three amigos. The bezel, the "insert" and the cab. I am still not sure I am happy with the insert. I'd like to raise it just a bit more on one side and then compensate a bit more by grinding the bezel down, but I think I'll do that once it is soldered to the base.


Ah, thank you fetaby and everyone else who tried to walked me through posting pictues. By George, I think I have finally got it....  ura

So, here is the base with the engraved design:



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« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2014, 11:15:08 am »

2nd the acid etching.  Also bringing news that E6000 now comes in black and white.


And for pictures, just right click on the picture, copy image address, paste, highlight, and then use the second button on the left above the smilies… looks like a landscape picture. 

I've always been baffled by the popularity of E6000.  It doesn't make a very strong bond, it never sets up hard and remains rubbery and tacky. I've pulled stones out of settings where E6000 was used as the glue to set the stone and all it took was a little tug on the rubbery mess to pop it out.  If you're going to use glue to set a stone, at least use something that sets hard and makes a strong bond.  E330 or even jb weld IMO are far better choices (although the best choice is not to use glue at all and set the stone properly).
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« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2014, 11:16:01 am »

Redrockrods,

I have used an engraver to create the lines where I wanted them. The acid etching would have worked as well, but I wanted the lines to be below the surface of the setting, not raised. It actually worked pretty well, I think. I will try the darn image thing again.

FIrst, it's the three amigos. The bezel, the "insert" and the cab. I am still not sure I am happy with the insert. I'd like to raise it just a bit more on one side and then compensate a bit more by grinding the bezel down, but I think I'll do that once it is soldered to the base.


Ah, thank you fetaby and everyone else who tried to walked me through posting pictues. By George, I think I have finally got it....  ura

So, here is the base with the engraved design:





That setting looks terrific, nice job on the engraving.
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« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2014, 11:21:15 am »

2nd the acid etching.  Also bringing news that E6000 now comes in black and white.


And for pictures, just right click on the picture, copy image address, paste, highlight, and then use the second button on the left above the smilies… looks like a landscape picture. 

I've always been baffled by the popularity of E6000.  It doesn't make a very strong bond, it never sets up hard and remains rubbery and tacky. I've pulled stones out of settings where E6000 was used as the glue to set the stone and all it took was a little tug on the rubbery mess to pop it out.  If you're going to use glue to set a stone, at least use something that sets hard and makes a strong bond.  E330 or even jb weld IMO are far better choices (although the best choice is not to use glue at all and set the stone properly).

I agree. E6000 is my go to when I cab welo opals, exactly for that reason. It's very easy to pop them off later, just put in the freezer for 10 min and off they go.  Can't use dopping wax with them safely.
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« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2014, 09:55:22 pm »

yea!   You got it! Whoo hoo. Nice. Show us the finished setting when it's done?

Phil
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« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2014, 11:13:00 pm »

Very impressed here.  Must see finished piece.
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« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2014, 10:35:18 am »

Thanks, guys! I most certainly will. Hope to get it done this weekend.
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« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2014, 06:52:35 pm »

If you haven't mounted it yet, I found the perfect!!!! backing for you. Soft enough to deform to your needs, stable, slightly sticky, etc......
I was playing around making up a setup to photo my cabs and someone said to stick them to a dowel, pin, whatever, but hidden behind the cab so the cab looks like it's floating above the background using ...... ta da!!! poster tacking putty. You can buy it at walmart, hobby lobby, etc etc etc and it works well! I stick a little bit of it to a cab then to a dowel and left it set to see what happens.  It stayed stuck, but not so stuck I couldn't easily remove it.  As long as what you're making is contained by a bezel, it's perfect! 
Give it a shot, it only cost $2 for a bunch!  Just look for poster tack!
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« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2014, 10:57:42 am »

Hey PhilNM,

THanks for trying but I'm not sure that would be a good choice. I've actually got some experience with this stuff (wall tack, or tacky putty). I actually use it in my drawing as an excellent graphite picker-upper, but would never leave it on paper for an extended period of time. It does leach some oily chemical, albeit very slowly, and I have no idea what affect that would have on the silver or the cab. I think JB weld is perfect. It's ready to go, just waiting for me to get my courage together to actually solder the bezel onto the setting.... roar
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