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December 10, 2018, 09:54:59 pm
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Shoestring budget faceting machine idea

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Author Topic: Shoestring budget faceting machine idea  (Read 1009 times)
npmn
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« on: April 14, 2014, 02:28:59 pm »

For simple faceting, mostly with found material, and with no intention of selling any stones, could this work?

http://www.worksharptools.com/metalworking/metalworking-sharpener/work-sharp-2000/work-sharp-2000-metal-workers-tool-sharpener-grinder.html
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lithicbeads
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2014, 03:51:27 pm »

No . You need a tool designed to be used wet.
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npmn
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2014, 04:09:09 pm »

Is it possible to get something that works for under 100$ without having to build it?
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Eu_citzen
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 04:11:57 am »

Lithic has a good point, both rock dust and water can be torture for a machine.
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guest3478
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 06:09:46 am »

Lithic has a good point, both rock dust and water can be torture for a machine.
not to mention lungs.
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npmn
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 01:29:57 pm »

what about this?

http://www.amazon.com/Woodtek-958371-Machinery-Grinders-Sharpener/dp/B009D5S6K4
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dickb
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 02:03:24 pm »

Still no. Go on to utube and search "faceting stone". Faceting is a very precise way to grind flat facets into the stone at very controlled angles. There are three ways to do that with an indexable mast and quill, a hand held faceting quill, and a jam peg quill that uses the meet point system. All these machines need to both grind the stone to size then polish each facet to high luster.

These machines require a lot of expensive accessories to complete the machine and do a good job of faceting. Bottom line this is a hobby or career that requires both a lot of training and equipment to pursue.  Sorry, but there is no acceptable cheap way to do this.





This should get you started.

Dickb
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npmn
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 02:58:59 pm »

Where there is a will there is a way.  Would I be better off with the water cooled machine, or just making something like this?  I understand that I could never make anything even vaguely comparable to what is made with a modern faceting machine.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iranicaonline.org%2Fuploads%2Ffiles%2Fgemcutsm_pg397.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iranicaonline.org%2Farticles%2Fgem-cutting-&h=437&w=524&tbnid=SFObxwb_9cohoM%3A&zoom=1&docid=OrjUuENc3HhwJM&ei=pD9QU_jHConu2QWas4HAAg&tbm=isch&ved=0CFQQMygAMAA&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=128&page=1&start=0&ndsp=9
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Eu_citzen
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 04:54:19 pm »

You need a water cooled system. It both cools the stone, preventing overheating (and thus cracking) of the rock, it also collects the dust from grinding
The dust is VERY dangerous. Water prevents you from inhaling it.


Faceting is an art and science.
Where less "perfect" machines take over, so does the "art" aspect. A large part is dependent on the cutter, perhaps more so then the machine. It's just so that a better, more precise machine makes it less frustrating.

You could at least in theory convert a flat lap into a faceting machine. I know one guy which built his own faceting machine. (from scratch)

He did cut some nice stones on that one! Not to mention he had the time to fine-tune everything, making it in his opinion better then a bought one. (and he has tried some - so he could compare)
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rocks2dust
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2014, 01:24:50 am »

Someone did make a moveable mast and index system that was very cheap and worked (not sure how quickly) by manually rubbing the dopped stone across a plate loaded with abrasive. There was no motorized spinning lap wheel, so no dust thrown around and no heat buildup problem. However, the guy who sold and demoed it at gem shows must have died a decade or so ago, and I cannot remember his name to google whether there are plans or other info somewhere on the Internet.

EDITED: OK, I stumbled across some info here. It is an old article, so perhaps someone has revived selling this or something similar.

EDITED: It looks like someone is now selling a redesign of the old Lap Lap called the Stone Tes Hand Faceter. Its retail price is more than the old Lap Lap, and more than you wanted to spend, but still less than motorized systems.

From what I recall, Lap Lap users got good results, though many probably moved on to motorized units if they got serious about doing lots of stones. If you are handy and wouldn't mind some trial and error with less than perfect results, you could probably cobble together a similar contraption to hold the stone while polishing that could be used to do some primitive faceting. Stones were faceted that way for centuries before the concept of index gears made it easier to repeat angles and get meet points when going from coarser to finer grits, spinning laps to speed up the sanding and polishing steps, etc.
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 11:02:23 am »

You can do it, but the thing is that you've still got to buy laps and transparent rough...

I'd strongly suggest either saving up for a proper machine, or maybe making your own cabochon grinder.

Joing a faceting club and ask about used equipment, you might get lucky, maybe try a trade?
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 11:38:59 am »

I remember an article which was probably in Lapidary Journal and an older issue, where someone figured out how to fabricate the part that you use to hold and rotate the stone to do the facets at the different angles.  The guy used part of a toy, or based it on a piece of a toy.  I at first wanted to say the piece was from a Lego's set, but it may have been those 1950s to 1970s wooden toys that had round wooden pieces with all kind of holes around the rim and you stuck wooden rods into them to attach to other wooden pieces and you made things from them.  I had one as a kid but can't remember the name, maybe tinker toys or something like that.  Or maybe i just dreamed this up in one of my wacko dreams i always have.  But i am sure there was something like that and i will look it up if i can.

Mark
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 11:54:31 am »

It was Lapidary Journal and it is probably in my collection of several hundred issues dating back to the 1990s but i would not know where to start to look.  Try these links:

https://www.google.com/search?q=lapidary+magazine+do+it+yourself+faceting+machine&biw=904&bih=512&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=AFL3VJzEE4awggT-qoSQCQ&ved=0CEUQsAQ

http://tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/Homemade.shtml  this one tells about a guy who makes his own and here they talk about making a variety of machines from rock saws to tumblers to faceters.

Here is the site but they no longer make the machines but i think there are  pics and maybe instructions for making your own

http://schmidling.com/eg.htm

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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 12:01:18 pm »

I also saw mention about making telescopes and if you could do that you could make a faceting machine.  I am guessing that the guidance system of a telescope and the gearing is the part that might be useful for a faceting machine with its indexing gear design.  In case there is anything to this theory, here is another link from the faceting site, for telescope construction chatter

http://hub.yourtakeonscience.com/hub/telescopemaking
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 12:09:32 pm »

Something like this could possibly be adapted to cut facets, but I would suggest using flat diamond disks instead of the side of a grinding wheel. With a little tinkering it should work on any machine which takes the spin on end disks.
http://www.google.com/search?q=drill+bit+sharpeners&biw=1280&bih=586&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=vlb3VP6eHIGuogS8iIKwBg&sqi=2&ved=0CEkQsAQ&dpr=1.25#imgdii=_&imgrc=DgMRx2l8kwLkuM%253A%3BgU6nUijQtYC6TM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftoolsandmore.us%252Fimages%252Fproducts%252Fdetail%252Fd4144_det1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftoolsandmore.us%252Fshop-fox-d4144-drill-bit-sharpener-jig.aspx%3B500%3B500
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 12:14:26 pm »

I also saw two cheap books by an astrophysicist that i have seen in lapidary journal talking about faceting.  He made his own machine and people seem to rave about his books:

Amateur Gemstone Faceting Volume 1: The Essentials
Amateur Gemstone Faceting Volume 2: Expanding Your Horizons

Oh my God, i found it.  It must be from the 1800s all black and white.  Just kidding, but it is in black and white but there are all the pics and diagrams.  I think if you make this and have to have someone make you the parts, you might do better buying one.  This is not a simple tinker toy setup.

http://lapidaryworld.com/pdf/home_made_faceting_machine.pdf
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 12:26:29 pm »

From another board, someone asked the same question.  They were soundly discouraged as the accuracy will not be good enough unless you have someone machine you the parts as in the directions from lapidary journal and that will probably be expensive too.  Now if you want to make a cab machine or flat lap, those look pretty easy from directions i have seen online.  The difference comes from the amount of accuracy needed for cutting tiny facets on a small gemstone, versus cabbing a stone that is flat on one side and curved to whatever degree you want on the other.  Try looking for a used machine.
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2015, 04:07:10 pm »

My suggestion would to do a daily search on Craig's list. I know of a lady nearby who found an aging rockhound who wanted his Graves faceting machine to go to the right person. She got the whole thing with many laps for less than $200.00. And another friend got a Graves with many laps but no indexes for $125.00. Look for a machine which was designed to do faceting. And, if you are really on a budget there are vintage faceting machines out there like B&I Gem Makers that many of the older members here will recognize which can be picked up for around $25.00.  That is what I got my last one for at an auction a year ago as it was my first machine when I was 12 and it came from Sears.
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