inside building at the show

[stonesthatrock]

its funny how many ppl wouldn't let me take pics of their work. but heres a few that would.  can you guess what that is?????


ty
ralph and mary ann


"Images are no longer hosted at Ralph and Mary Ann's Photobucket"

[Taogem]

Looks like a real nice show.

What do you suppose the objection is to taking pics?

The little bottles with the painting on the outside remind me of some of my Chinese Snuff Bottles where the artist does the painting on the inside of the bottle. "Inside painted bottles".

I see a lot of nice booths set up there.

[stonesthatrock]

i asked  why not?  and they said its so you don't copy their work.  one lady had a sign on her case saying that her wire wrapping is copywrited. :o

Ya right, like she can do that.

mary ann

[Taogem]

i asked  why not?  and they said its so you don't copy their work.  one lady had a sign on her case saying that her wire wrapping is copywrited. :o

Ya right, like she can do that.

mary ann

Wow..... Not sure which is more creative, her wire wrapping or her ego!

[Bluesssman]

Sounds like an ego afraid of competition!!

[akansan]

I've encountered the no picture thing before as well.  I think it's pretty rude...

(My favorite example of this is the woman that had a booth full of Preston Reuther style wraps, and she didn't want anyone taking pictures.)

[Dr Joe]

It's also possible that they didn't want people to see they had copied someone else's designs  :o

And stonesthatrock, you can copyright a design or wire wrapping technique... but at a cost!

Dr Joe

.

[stonesthatrock]

dr. joe  now thats funny,  maybe they did.   lmao
i suppose you can copyright anything if you have the money.

mary ann

[Taogem]

That was funny Doc Joe..   ;D

[Willy]

Not allowing photos at shows is common in this area.  If you buy a sticker for your camera from the Show Promoter, then you can take pictures at the booths that will allow it, but you must ask first.  People getting caught taking pictures or using camera phones get escorted out all of the time.  Security says nothing to do with copyright, they can care less about that, but they don't want people taking pictures then coming back at night or another time and robbing the vendors.  They also reminded that unless you get a signed release, never get the face of anyone in a picture, especially children, as that is against the law.  Ran into that at some of the shows in Tucson this year, have been told that has always been the case in Vagas, and I know about half of the shows we attend as vendors in this area, we have to be very careful when taking pictures of our own setup that we don't get a neighboring vendor or one behind us in the picture.  I got nailed by security at Tucson last year for taking pictures from the balcony of the floor vendors at the AGTA Show.

[Bluesssman]

Willy, who ever told you it was illegal to take a picture of someone's face was flat telling you BS. I spent many years as a commercial photographer and am very aware of the legality of photography. The only time you need a signed release is if you are going to use the photograph in an advertisement. There are lots of places that will give you an excuse why you can not take pictures and if you are on private property they can use that as an excuse. However, if the situation ever went to court they would lose. I know, I have been to court three times and won all three! Obviously no one wants to go to court, so it is just easier to not take pictures. Just know it is not any state or federal law that is stopping you... 

Ok, jumping off of the soap box...


Gary

[Willy]

Hi Gary -  well as a police officer for 12 years brfore being retired for injuried breasking up a gang fight, I arrested several when a person filed a formal complaint about someone taking their picture and all but one, won their cases.  Never dealt with a press person taking pictures though, we were always told to ignore the Press.  But right now I am following a case very closely in my own neighborhood where a home owner took pictures of kids vandelizing a nearbye school, and the kids got off because the parents brought charges against the home owner for taking videos of their kids and now the home owner is facing charges of taking pictures of children without parent concent.  Parden the French, but the darnest thing I have ever heard of if you ask me, catch someone in the act and can't use to prosecute, but shows just how far our courts have gone as far as I am concerned.  I am waiting on the first criminal to really challenge the remote cameras or the video taping of cashregisters in stores where someone is identified by the video and then convicted.  Oh yes, I'm sorry, I forgot, no one is ever caught that way so it will never be an issue    LOL

Well we got off subject a bit, but at Tucson I did have to delete every picture on my digital camera for security at the AGTA Show and recently in Hawaii, hotel security warned me about taking picturs of jewelry in the botique windows.  Guess I can see those from a security standpoint but not really at one or two days shows where the chance of someone returning to break in is slim to none.  Although at our recent Gem and Mineral Show, one of the vendors had everything stolen out of his van at the motel the night after the show closed and he was heading home the next morning.  I am guessing, but figure someone followed him from the show.

So anyway, I ask first and only take pictures of items whenever I am out in public, especially at shows.

[Bluesssman]

Willy, sorry to prolong this picture taking discussions, but I don't understand how taking someone's picture in a public place can get you arrested. What shields the press from the same actions? What about the poporazzi (can't spell it right)? Is there possibly a new law where you live involving taking children's pictures as a protection against child predators? I ask this because I teach photography and this subject often comes up in discussions.

Sorry to hear about your injury...

Thanks,


Gary

[Willy]

OK, Gary just posted, I thought an answer for you, but now can't find it as I thought of one other comment.  Will see if can find the first answer and repost as it dealt with children and some "comments" about people complaigning and copyrights.

Anyway, what I was going to add is:  I think we have become a nation of complaingers and since anyone for any reason can file a complaint against another person or group or business, or even go so far as to file an actual Law Suit, the whole situation is out of hand.  We have comments on our evening news from time to time about how backed up the courts are from frivioulus (sp) Law Suits.  It seems as if all I have to be doing is sitting next to you in a restaurant and if you don't like the conversation I am carrying on at my table, you can make a complaint and file a Law Suit (not you specifically of couse, just anyone else).  It has gotten totally out of hand and one reason I thank God every day I made it through 23 years of Federal Servie and 12 years of Texas service, and am still here, though hobble a bit, but still able to spout off now and then   LOL

Willy

[Bluesssman]

Willy, thank you for taking the time to chat! I agree 100% with you about frivolous law suites! And, one day I look forward to talking in person at a restaurant and I don't think we will have to worry about the conversation!!

Thanks again,


Gary

[Willy]

Gary -  guess just going to have to type everything said out again as can't find what said before.

First, I think maybe I led you to a misconception that I arrested people taking pictures, and that is not exactly the case.  I arrested people who had taken pictures when a complaint was made, or a bench warrant or an arrest warrent was issued by a judge.  As I said anyone can file a complaint and thus once made a Peace Officer or Police Officer has to react to the situation.  In most cases the situation with picture taking, it was escallated because of a Priviate Security Guard working for the company, show sponsor or vendor.  Security usually tried to inforce POLICY where Peace Officers inforce LAW.  And I concur, I know of no laws except around govt facilities and especially military bases, concerning no taking of pictures.  Now where I would get involved is when a Security Guard tried to enforce policy and the person would get into a hassel with the security guard or the owner, and the police would get called.  At that point if a complaint was made, then I would have to detain, not arrest, the person and take them to a magistrate.  At that point, depending on the complaint and what went on, the magistrate would order the person released or put in jail or bonded out.  A few times, the security officer, owner and the person would all go to see the magistrate when things got out of hand.  That made for even more fun, more complaints and even law suits.  The times I got called into court to testify it would normally be to tell the judge and jury what I saw, the person was taking a group photo, a scenry photo, a sports shot or did it appear the photo was a close up portrait type of the other person.  The latter seemed to be the determining factor if the case went any further.

Now with children, as far back as 1985 when I went thru the Police Academy, we were taught that normal operating policy was that if we saw someone specifically targeting a child taking facial pictures and the child was under 14, we should advise the person not to take the pictures and ID the person, and I guess it is even stricter today because of the preditors and porno, because I notice the TV  News usually blanks out childrens faces if they are 14 and under, unless they have been adjudicated to strand trial as an adult.  But again we are talking usually about published pictures and now just someone taking home photos or news shots.  I do remember that at the schools, the sports team members, band, cheer leaders, etc., to participate had to have parents concurrence that photos could and probably would be taken of their children at events.  The case of the video taping of the kids doing the vandalism and it being thrown out and the homeowner who taped them being charged with takeing the juveniles picture without parent concernt is just beyond me, and when I get a chance I want to look up what law(s) they might be charging them under, because if that's the case, all these security video camera are sure in violation all the time.

As a side note, most of the time if an actual arrest was made at the scene because of a photo being taken, it was because of the fight that had ensued between the persons.

If you and most of us on this net are like me, I love to take pictures of the various rocks, minerals, slabs, jewelry, etc., but have pretty well made up my mind if a sign is posted, or a person says NO, I back off as don't want the hassel, don't want to have to stick around to explain things, don't want my pictures deleted, etc.  After the pictures being deleted at the AGTA in Tucson in 2008, and being told NO in Las Vegas, San Diego, Denver and at recent shows here in San Antonio, I just make sure I ask first and/or get the camera pass from the show host at the door, and then still ask each person if ok to take the picture.

I really think the copyright thing has gone overboard.  I will bet 95% of the web-sites that say copyrighted are NOT, and I am sure most people don't copyright every piece of jewelry, it would cost a fortune.  Plus according to copyright laws, if the design, or item is changed 10%, it is no longer a copyright violation.

The more I think about our discussion, I think we have hit on some valid points for all of us out here that like to take pictures of our hobby and pasions and especially you also in teaching photography.

Wonder if the no photos is a big town big show mentality, or the same thing ocurrs in small towns and small shows.  I don't remember anyone complaigning at Quartzite or Deming.

Willy

[Bluesssman]

Willy, again I want to thank you for taking the time to explain to me (and I guess everyone else reading our posts!!) the situations involved.

I must share with you. San Antonio is one of my favorite cities to visit. I have been there twice for conventions and have always enjoyed the city and found the people to be very friendly. The river walk area is amazing!!


Gary

[Taogem]

The river walk area is amazing!!

I remember that river walk well too.. Really beautiful.  :)

[Willy]

They are lengthing the River Walk.  When finished you will be able to go from the Zoo, about a mile north of where the walk area now ends, to 5 miles south to the farthest south of all the Missions -  The Rive Walk will almost become a new Mission Trail, from The Alamo to Mission Concepción,  Mission San José, Mission San Juan  and Mission Espada, all along the San Antonio River when finished.

BTW I assume, and that is a bad thing to do, you know there are 52 areas in Texas currently allowing Rock Hunting.  Will be about half that number if that darn bill passes the Legislature.  Not sure how the Fed Bill will affect thibngs as of yet.

Willy