Side Views of Cabs Please [Dome Question]

[Carol M]

Here is what one jeweler told me:

"Your 80 edges on this stone are extremely impressive to work with. I have some many cabs from different people and they are always different. I typically find stones with girdles that are shallow on one side or two sides and they make a lot more work to get make them look correct.
This stone is pretty large but because of this nice even girdle I was able to reduce the bezel height about half enabling the stone to show itself off more, very nice!"

I wish I could post his pictures of the settings but I believe it would be copyright infringement.

Yes that's totally right Krystee,

Re my own preferences, for girdles,  This is important -  I prefer that a girdle be the [b]same angle and the height all the way around the stone[/b].  If it's high on one side and low on the other then the bezel looks like a weird roller coaster with the girdle going in and out of the metal, or if the metal follows the wave, it looks even weirder, and when you bend it over and it REALLY shows up.  I don't care if it's 88 deg or 75 deg as long as it's the same height and slope all the way around the stone.

My preference is not for 90 deg because you need to push the bezel over the stone, and if the stone is as wide at the top of the girdle as it is at the bottom [ie, 90 deg] you have to run the bezel HIGHER than the girdle to have somewhere to push it and then you end up with puckers and a weird bend.  Anything less than 90 deg [even 88 deg] is good, but consistent.

Also, my Lapidary guru, Boris, says that the flat back must be flat, but should have a small beveled edge not a sharp corner between the back and the girdle, because if there's any small amount of solder bump or anything inside the setting, when you roll over the bezel, you could crack some stones.

Another thing my guru's a bug about is the consistency of the curve across the dome.  I showed him some cabs I had bought and he pointed out the flaws which were bowed out back surfaces, and he'd hold the cab sideways and look across the dome, and if the arc radius on the left was way different from the one on the right, that was 'not correct'. He teaches "Competition Calibrated Cabs".  I don't know about freeform cabs....there may be more leeway in those shapes, but this is what he told me.

[kennyg]

I have seen this addressed here before and I think that 100% of the smithies and casters are in agreement about the angle of the girdle needing to be at an angle, but there is a whole bunch of other craftsmen out there that want a vertical girdle, the wire wrappers so you need to try and do that for them, I just cut but I try to know what the artist is going to use the stone for and adapt from there. Persoally I think some wire wrappers are so good that if they incorporated a little solder here and there with their designs would arguably be smiths IMHO.

[tntmom]

I'm curious, I've done a bit of wire wrapping and have come to the conclusion that wire wrapping does not bring out my artistic side the way finding pictures in stone does so, I stopped and decided to sit back and admire the artisans that excel in it!  The question I have though is, do experienced wire wrappers like a large girdle or a 90 degree girdle?  When I wrapped I found that thin girdles allowed me to use less wire because I could do 3 wires around the perimeter versus 5+.  BUT..... I was attempting simple wraps and was very happy that when I messed up, I wasn't throwing tons of silver in the scrap pile.  Do wire wrappers need the extra width so that they can use more wire for their weaves, etc...????

As far as my cabs though, they all have an angled bezel regardless as to whether they are being sold to a smither or a wire wrapper.  My best customer though is a wire wrapper and she orders from me every month.  I'm wondering if the fact that I do higher domes negates the need for a large girdle?

[kennyg]

I think you maybe seeing it the way I do Krystee there are probably 100 wrappers for every smith out there some good some bad but they all need medium to work with and as cutters we can make their work easier and move more of our art.

[gemfeller]

The question I have though is, do experienced wire wrappers like a large girdle or a 90 degree girdle? 

I'm not clear on your meaning here Krystee.  By "large girdle" do you mean something like a 75-degree girdle angle compared to a straight up-and-down 90-degrees?  I'm curious about specific wire-wrappers' needs also.

Rick 

[tntmom]

The question I have though is, do experienced wire wrappers like a large girdle or a 90 degree girdle? 

I'm not clear on your meaning here Krystee.  By "large girdle" do you mean something like a 75-degree girdle angle compared to a straight up-and-down 90-degrees?  I'm curious about specific wire-wrappers' needs also.

Rick 

I was just being hypothetical.  I've never had a wire wrapper ask for specific angles or girdle height before, just shapes.  But.... when looking through various wire wrapping books and seeing some artists work I notice that they might have 5 or more wires going around the perimeter of the stone and the work gets very intricate.  When seeing those pieces I always wonder what the cab looked like before they started their design piece?

I think Donnie would be a good person to ask because she is now teaching wire wrapping classes! 

[Carol M]

The question I have though is, do experienced wire wrappers like a large girdle or a 90 degree girdle? 

I'm not clear on your meaning here Krystee.  By "large girdle" do you mean something like a 75-degree girdle angle compared to a straight up-and-down 90-degrees?  I'm curious about specific wire-wrappers' needs also.

Rick 

Hi Rick,
When Krystee says 'large girdle' I think she means the HEIGHT of the girdle [like 3mm or 4mm or 5mm, not the SLOPE of the angle....but I could be wrong.

Krystee....is that correct??

[tntmom]

The question I have though is, do experienced wire wrappers like a large girdle or a 90 degree girdle? 

I'm not clear on your meaning here Krystee.  By "large girdle" do you mean something like a 75-degree girdle angle compared to a straight up-and-down 90-degrees?  I'm curious about specific wire-wrappers' needs also.

Rick 

Hi Rick,
When Krystee says 'large girdle' I think she means the HEIGHT of the girdle [like 3mm or 4mm or 5mm, not the SLOPE of the angle....but I could be wrong.

Krystee....is that correct??

Yes!!!!  Sorry to confuse 

[kennyg]

I did ask this question in another forum and the reply was that it depends on the wire gauge as to how many wires they will use but as a rule of thumb he said vertical and the width of 2 - 20 gauge wires. Wrappers seem to be pretty flexible as are metal smiths they can make most things work but they probably grumble and cuss the cabber for not knowing what is needed lol.

[finegemdesigns]

I think you maybe seeing it the way I do Krystee there are probably 100 wrappers for every smith out there some good some bad but they all need medium to work with and as cutters we can make their work easier and move more of our art.

Wow really that percent? I don't finish backs (but offer to polish at no extra charge) so that the gem works better in a bezel setting. But I imagine wire wrappers always want backs polished.

[Deb]

Hi all,

This is a really good conversation.  I'm a wirewrapper and I like girdles that are straight up and down and
usually but not always a two mm.  However, since I also cab, it depends on where
I want the stone to go and what I feel it needs.  There are a few that have been
quite a bit thicker because that's where I feel it needed to go.

Krystee, I truly look forward to seeing your cabs.  They are always beautiful.
Especially the obsidians.

Deb     

[kennyg]

go to etsy and look up wire wrapped jewelry 61k items, silver smithed jewelry 1500 pieces. Just about every Craft store has wire wrapping lessons some several times a year. As far as polished backs I'm sure they would prefer them in certain instances probably most of the time, there are those that would probably like the grooved cabs, cabs drilled for bead like things and it goes on and on there is a huge market out there presently being cornered by the Chinese bead factories and low cost low quality mass produced cabochons. just saying. This is kinda hijacking this thread so I'll quit now

[finegemdesigns]

go to etsy and look up wire wrapped jewelry 61k items, silver smithed jewelry 1500 pieces. Just about every Craft store has wire wrapping lessons some several times a year. As far as polished backs I'm sure they would prefer them in certain instances probably most of the time, there are those that would probably like the grooved cabs, cabs drilled for bead like things and it goes on and on there is a huge market out there presently being cornered by the Chinese bead factories and low cost low quality mass produced cabochons. just saying. This is kinda hijacking this thread so I'll quit now

No please keep going. I had no idea the wire wrap people were so plentiful. The more information the better. On the 90° angle domes do they prefer a rounded top edge or sharper?

[kennyg]

Well I'm not a wire wrapper but maybe those here that are can tell us what they want in cab construction.