Tested to Destruction - Fake STONE on Yellowhorse, Case and Rough Rider knives

[wyrock]

Is it possible to get some action from the Better Business Bureau in the city where they are manufactured? That is pure wrong and pure greed and false advertising. They need to be shut down or required to put how they are made on the label like any other product. Then sold as junk.
Jim

[Michael S Hoover - Redrummd]

I could find no evidence of "reconstituted rock".  Even the Mojave Turquoise I tested to destruction had  at least some chips of stone.  These all had not even "chips" of stone in them that could be melted out.  They were truly "dust" of some sort that was mixed with plastic.  I need to look a little closer today at the pieces I  took off the Yellowhorse and Rough Rider to see if there is any adhesive on the metal strips between the "hand inlays" or if they show evidence of being a part of a injection form.

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

Is it possible to get some action from the Better Business Bureau in the city where they are manufactured? That is pure wrong and pure greed and false advertising. They need to be shut down or required to put how they are made on the label like any other product. Then sold as junk.
Jim

The BBB is just a reporting agency - kind of like eBay feedback but (to my knowledge) without numbered ratings. You report something and your text is recorded. The offender is offered a chance to rebut and so on. Last I reported someone they told me they take no action AND if you take any legal action they remove themselves from the process.

[Bentiron]

This kind of reminds me of when I was casting bronze, a woman asked if I could repair one of her bronze sculptures and I said that I would need to take a look at it first to see what could be done. It was a cast of Fredrick Remington's "the Rattlesnake", which was kinda balanced on three narrow points, that's where it had snapped off. When I looked at it the thing was made of resin with bronze dust in it, she had paid nearly $20k for this piece of "oringinal" Remington art work and it wasn't. She had papers of authentication, fake, bills of sale down through the years, all looking very real. I told her to file a police report and no I wouldn't touch it.  There was a group of Chinese that were making fake Remington bronzes in both bronze(brass) and resin and selling them as originals for a boat load of money. This was all within days of the copyright running out on the originals, even some American owners of Remington works had tried to jump on that bandwagon to make some extra cash on their own Remington's that they had. It is so sad when greed takes over good common sense. 

[Enchantra]

Interesting to note I went on IJS where I thought I had seen this variety of stone posted before and I found cabs of the imitation material there.  Here's the page.  At least they are selling it as immitation. 
https://eclient.ijsinc.com/eshop/default.aspx?ControlName=SubCategories&category_id=108B1559-9677-4634-87A3-99A34EB03487

Michael, just a thought here but why don't you email the nuts you bought these from with a link to your test page and then explain to them how they aren't selling real stone and see what their responses are...

[Michael S Hoover - Redrummd]

I seem to have created enough controversy already and taking on large companies usually ends up with lawyers and courts involved.  I do have all of this posted on the largest knife collectors site in the world though as I have a sub forum there.

[helens]

I'd at least demand a refund... you bought 'stone' to test against your own STONE knives, and discovered it was cheap plastic, and that's NOT what you paid for!!! Force them to look at their materials. Who knows, maybe they were cheated THEMSELVES by an unscrupulous sub-contractor... and can hire you to make the real deal:P.

[NuevoMundo]

Great topic, Michael. I want to make sure it gets seen by everyone, so I will leave it here set 'sticky' for a week or so, then move it over to your 'tested to destruction' sub-forum, if that is OK...

[Isotelus]

Sad but typical in this business can do no wrong era. Can you imagine how many people have been ripped off by this, only the accountants know for sure.

For those of us that have worked stone most of our lives you can just look at those knives and know by the patterning it's not real stone. Syntho Gem or some of the block materials that are largely polyester have run rampant for years in the market and fooled countless consumers. I suspect this material is probably acrylic with some mineral bound synthetic dye or something similar. Enough said it isn't stone .

[Bentiron]

This type of fake stone is what made the turquoise market go bust back in the mid to late 70s, that's what made everyone suspect that every piece of turquoise was fake or somehow enhanced. This type of lying, cheating and faking is nothing new, that's how the word "paste" entered the jewelry trade in the first place long ago. The Better Business Bureau is not the one you should contact but the Federal Trade Commission since this is being sold across state lines. It could even be considered as mail fraud if the packages were sent USPS. 

[39don]

As an "Old Timer" in the market place it would seem "Case" would not have resorted to selling imitation materials on their knives and calling it the real thing.

The manufactures do not give us rockhounds credit to be able to spot fake/false rock material. I have never ever seen a veined turquoise that ever looked like that.

39don

[spiffman]

I'm new to the forum. Thanks for having me. I try to find answers by searching the forum before asking a question. like this post. I learned a lot by reading this thank you.  It has to be rough knowing your going to trash something like that and not cheap either. Me, I would have gotten P.O.'d, which never helps in ANY way at all. Anyway I could go on.... Thanks
Tim

[Carol M]

Hi,
I'm a total newbie to lapidary but this sort of discovery is totally fascinating to me.
It's like 'forensics'!!!

As a suggestion re 'what you might do'.  Many, many people who are considering anything from a new vacuum cleaner to a new car to booking a hotel on vacation, often type into Google the name of the item and the word "reviews".
I've been saved some serious mistakes in purchasing by reading reviews posted by ordinary people.

Your testing is hardly 'ordinary' but very thorough and well documented.
I'd suggest you do a similar search [which will show you the locations that Google picks up] and add your evidence to the 'reviews'.  
You may be able to shut down this action or at least warn unsuspecting people what's out there.
Just a suggestion from a fascinated onlooker.

Keep up the great work!!!
Ciao,
Carol M

[PanaMark]

I seem to have created enough controversy already and taking on large companies usually ends up with lawyers and courts involved.  I do have all of this posted on the largest knife collectors site in the world though as I have a sub forum there.

Michael,  can you link us to that posting. Would like to read knife collectors' response.  Thanks for your hard work toward honesty and integrity. - Mark

[Michael S Hoover - Redrummd]

There are only a couple of comments from collectors BUT the post has been viewed over 750 times so far.....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1038440-FAKE-OR-REAL-STONE-QUESTIONS-Lapidary-Gemstone-Community-Forum