All Things Faceting

[Enchantra]

There was a request for a thread solely for faceting.

So ask your questions, share your faceting knowledge with others and of course post pictures!  This thread is for all of those. 

Want to know how to make a tiffany cut?  This is your thread.  Want to find good faceting rough?  Here's your thread.   

[lithicbeads]

 Does this mean I have to break out the facetron? Also R.I.P. fac-ette if you haven't heard.

[ScarlettoSara]

LOLOL come on pull it out from under the bed and show us please:)

[Helene]

BatWOMan you got let out of the basement.  So you must have been on good behavior?  Good for you.  You were missed.

[ScarlettoSara]

Hugs Helene I am never good I am merely waiting for next lesson in life for full enlightenment:)

People couldn't become truly holy, he said, unless they also had the opportunity to be definitely wicked.”
― Terry Pratchett, Good Omens

[Steve]

Hugs Helene I am never good I am merely waiting for next lesson in life for full enlightenment:)

People couldn't become truly holy, he said, unless they also had the opportunity to be definitely wicked.”
― Terry Pratchett, Good Omens

Oh........the burdens we thrust upon ourselves.............Look beyond the right and wrong..........to simply what is

[ScarlettoSara]

practices being..... buzzzzzz

[Eu_citzen]

Ever heard of colour shifting garnet?

Natural daylight:


Incandescent:


And here is a cut one:


Opal, in a free form shape:



I have plenty more pics, just need to get 'em sorted out and edited.

[DonniesTreasures]

Okay, I don't do faceting & probably never will, just too much involved with it, like patience, for instance!  But I do have the utmost respect for those who do & will love to see some of the stones ya'll have faceted & how you do it!  Sooooooooo bring it on!  I do like that garnet & it's amazing to see a faceted opal!  Been watching JTV & they always show off those custom faceted stones - amazing cuts!  Do any of you all ever buy from JTV?

[ScarlettoSara]

Williw:) How beautiful they are:) Certainly a pleasure to look at:)

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

I'm with Donnie on this - don't do it, no plans but love to see it!

[Eu_citzen]

Okay, I don't do faceting & probably never will, just too much involved with it, like patience, for instance!  But I do have the utmost respect for those who do & will love to see some of the stones ya'll have faceted & how you do it!  Sooooooooo bring it on!  I do like that garnet & it's amazing to see a faceted opal!  Been watching JTV & they always show off those custom faceted stones - amazing cuts!  Do any of you all ever buy from JTV?

Never, I only buy from a selected few sources whom I trust.
Mainly because I want to be pretty sure I get what I purchased, JTV and similar do in some circles not have a good reputation.

It is better to buy from a small business who know what their doing - they have a reputation to live up to.

Thanks all!

[lonelygems]

Nice thread, i really want to improve my skill on faceting gems....looking for the right tutorial and need to build my own faceting equipment, i'm interested to facet an opaque material....

[Eu_citzen]

Since you mentioned it.. I've done a "process of faceting" picture series, just found it.
It was a test to see how a certain design performed. It later got a "retouch".

attached the rough to the dopstick:


Roughing in the first tier of facets:


Ready to get into doing the girdle, aka 90 degrees slope. It will set the general shape of the stone.


Girdle roughed in:


Now going to a finer lap, to remove the biggest scratches etc.


I then go to 3K diamond and 100K to polish:


Time to re-dop the stone!


After re-dopping the first dopstick is removed:


We may need to fine tune it now, since the re-dopping process can shift the position a tiny wee bit. Using a waterproof marker pen and a known indexed girdle facet:



We're good to go when the polishing lap removes the colour off the whole girdle facet, like this:


Then we repeat the whole process again on the top "crown" area of the stone...
Now I forgot to take some pics, here it is almost ready for a bath in acetone:



Finished test cut, needless to say the design was re-worked:

[ScarlettoSara]

Wow it is most beautiful:) What cut is that? I think I kept my diagram book but I dont remember all the cut names. Would you mind doing a little polishing around my eyes and mouth:)

[Steve]

Wow............Oh Yes.................

[Eu_citzen]

Wow it is most beautiful:) What cut is that? I think I kept my diagram book but I dont remember all the cut names. Would you mind doing a little polishing around my eyes and mouth:)

Thank you! It is my own design, so far I just call it NT Oval. (NT= No Table)

Thanks Steve!

[lonelygems]

Thank you for sharing Willie.....my problem is i can't find good equipment in Indonesia, there is one or two type but not good precision....i plan to build one adjustable to my need to facet an opaque material   

[Eu_citzen]

Daniel, I know the feeling.
I had to import mine from the US, although it still lacked precision IMHO.

In the future I to plan to build my own to - but that's a later project.

[39don]

I use to do a lttle faceting but it was so time consuming and one could purchase it for much less than I could, most times, buy the rough for.

This was faceted from a broken Champagne colored Smokey Quartz crystal and finished out at around 10 to 15 carats. I found less than 30 miles from where I live. I had the mounting made by a guy in Knoxville, Tennessee in the mid 1970's. The cut is a Fairy Wand cut and has 130 facets total. It has 8 points around the crown containing 10 crown facet meets each which look like a Fairy's wand sparkling.  It took me close to 40 hours to cut.

Don

[lonelygems]

Extremely perfection Don.....absolutely nice piece, 40 hours is a big investment of time.....

[Eu_citzen]

Very nice Don! I'm a slow cutter myself - I take my time. Mostly longer then I'd like to! LOL

This one below took me about 32 hours, colour shifting garnet.
Was my first time cutting a cushion.

[39don]

Thanks Daniel and Willie. I have a few more mounted stones I'll post later.

Willie you have a nice garnet going there, from what I can see you have the meets nailed......      

The hours required to get the facets right is to much for me anymore. Once I started faceting a stone it was hard for me to stop so when it came time to go to bed most of the time it was late. The wife was mad as h-ll cause all she could hear was scratch scratch, scratch scratch everytime I put the arm down to start grinding again. So outside the faceting machine went and almost me toooooo.          

Don

[lonelygems]

You cuts pro Willie....no doubt.....

Thanks Daniel and Willie. I have a few more mounted stones I'll post later.

Willie you have a nice garnet going there, from what I can see you have the meets nailed......     

The hours required to get the facets right is to much for me anymore. Once I started faceting a stone it was hard for me to stop so when it came time to go to bed most of the time it was late. The wife was mad as h-ll cause all she could hear was scratch scratch, scratch scratch everytime I put the arm down to start grinding again. So outside the faceting machine went and almost me toooooo.          

Don

and don't replace that with saw unit......yo may get real out   
I was ussually polished my cabs at late night too but no more unless it's urgent....

[Eu_citzen]

Thanks Don, I try to keep 90+% of the meets nailed, I suppose that's what takes the most time. That and finding the inspiration, I do a lot of my designs myself and have a lot of test cutting in front of me..

To me it looks you did the same? At least from the pics it looks good.

And for today we can enjoy an apatite in a design I call "blue Ice".
Reminds me of my days in the cold north.



Them soft gems can be a real pain to polish, I made myself a vinyl lap for that purpose.
Though I know some use the same lap for most everything, only difference in pressure and speed. Some day I'll try to delve deeper into it.

LOL @ the wife! What machine did you have?

Daniel, thanks! I'm my own biggest sceptic, lol! I still see myself as an amatuer!

[ScarlettoSara]

I am loving this whole thread. That last one is so bootiful:)

[Helene]

Nice work and very time consuming to get the points to meet exactly.  Did a little many years ago also.  I would always do my last cut a little short, so when I polished the points would not overlap, but be right on.  One little mistake and you have to almost recut every facet.  Not a job for the faint of heart -- I say the same for getting older.
Thanks for sharing all those little stars.

[lonelygems]

You're humble Willie.....you good, this faceted apetite really looks like a blue ice to me......

[Eu_citzen]

My gosh Sara, your changing your nickname every second day now??

Thanks either way. :)

Helene, I do the same, only reliable way IMHO to lessen the work needed.
Otherwise its quickly done to over cut one facet.
And LOL @ getting older.. Worst part is both are rather time consuming!

Thank you Daniel, I'm having a lot of fun in posting in this thread, finding a lot of pics and stones I forgot about!! And yes, I'm quite humble.

For today we have a hexagonal cushion, I like to title it "Morning Fog".
At least for the "frosted" version where some facets in the bottom (pavilion) are left unpolished.
I designed it specifically for a quartz, one of the first in my area to ever be faceting quality! I now have at least 3 different variations of it. One of my favourite designs.

[ScarlettoSara]

awww I love it:) I have more faces than Eve. It is the way I entertain myself dear Willie:)

[Eu_citzen]

Thanks Sara, and nicks to it seems! LOL
Entertain yourself.. as in confusing us? 

[lithicbeads]

 Hi, How about talking about your selection of favorite laps , grit , sequence , favorite polishing laps. I need some motivation here. A long time ago I was fortunate to sit in on many sessions with Bob Long and Norm Steele. I was smart and kept my mouth shut and tried to absorb as much from these great innovators as I could. Norm was the first person that explained  to me how great the facetors in Australia were , a force to be reckoned with. Any of you folks ever done a windmill cut with single needle quartz?  The single included crystal is oriented from the apex of the culet to the center of the table. Rough suitable for this was coming out of Brazil for many years but I have not seen any for at least 10 years.

[Helene]

I'll try Frank.  From what I remember it's been so long ago and never an expert.  My favorite polishing lap was a ceramic lap using diamond paste.  It didn't take much to get the fine polish.  Ive heard other faceters use viniger in their drip and that facilitates a quick polish with the ceramic lap.  It is a very slow drip, once every 12 to 15 seconds.

Contamination is a big problem with faceting so always remember after using any lap to wash it and put it in a protective container before using the next lap.  I washed mine with a mild soap and tooth brush.  Others may have better tips.  I know this is a weak start, but hope others can add-on and even have better suggestions to storing and cleaning laps, or what their favorite polishing laps are.

Truth be told all this is a hobby for me and just know enough to talk a little, share a little, learn a lot.  I just like to chime in so you gals & guys know I'm here. 

I wish the wizard was here to give some tips, especially on his "faciting on a shoe string budget."  Seriously I truely enjoyed his little tutorial. I found it very youthful.   Sorry if anyone has recieved a strange e-mail from me about a diet ad, my mail has been hacked.

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

I was wondering what the heck that was about Helene! So sorry to hear - I hate them for their hubris in coding but I recommend McAfee - I've never had anything pierce their security in over 10 years. I sometimes put other security software on one or two computers and sooner or later they get a virus.

[Eu_citzen]

I go 320 preforming, 600 Nubond for final shaping.
The basic laps that came with my machine.

I then go to a BattWing, 3K prepolish and 100K polish, diamond all the way.
I use this set up for approx 6 -7 Mohs and up.
I have a vinyl lap to polish softer gems, like opal.

What did you have in mind regarding sequence? As in sequencing the facets?
If so I like to start with the breaks or what every facets align to the girdle.

Then after having it (the breaks) centred I cut in the girdle and later the mains, which then just need to meet the girdle and it should centre all by its self.

[Eu_citzen]

To put the "Windmill cut" into contrast, a Portuguese cut in a very light coloured amethyst has quite few facets! (see pic below)

This was one of my first stones polished with cerium on the BattWing, worked good considering there where some inclusions which gave me some trouble!
Slow speeds seems to make polishing easier when inclusions come to the surface.



Does anyone have a favourite gem material to facet?

[ScarlettoSara]

Wow Willie:)
You have exceptional skills with this faceting:) What beauty you create:)
Got any topaz? The orange not the blue.

[Eu_citzen]

Thanks Sara, I do enjoy it. :)

Nope, I have only rough montana topaz, brownish to colourless.
Never cut it due to the (supposedly) troublesome cleavage and it has some nice crystal faces. :)

I have never found a good description on how to handle the cleavage in real life.
Of course I've heard to theoretical stuff, but how it should be done in real life I'm not sure.. Mostly self taught, I had taken a course, but it wasn't of much use.

If anyone knows I'd be glad to hear about it!

But first.. I have my old man, he wants to learn faceting also.
I'm not sure how his patience is for this so..
Thinking about giving him a dictionary so he gets to know some more words to cuss! 

[Helene]

Orient the rough at least 7 to 10 degrees away from the cleavage plane ("c" axis). The cleavage on topaz is perfect, and looks almost like a polished surface. Commercial cutters (in Bangkok) often use the actual cleavage surface as the table, to save cutting labor. When re-cutting a "native" cut stone, test the table on a polishing lap to ensure that it is not the cleavage plane. ^{I quoted this from faciting.com.} 

I cut quite a bit of Topaz, because it is easy to cut, has good color, flawless larger pieces readally available at a good price.  (had a small budget)  Willie, don't be scared to cut Topaz it is very stable if you oriente it right and will give you no problems.    Remember I cut just enough to know a little.

Loved the last brillent cut you posted.  You have mad skills.

[Helene]

I already love your father.

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

That stone is amazing Willie - wow!

I'm afraid you all are talking a bit over my head in this thread but it's kind of fun - reminds of being a kid and trying to figure out what the grown-ups are saying, heh heh...

I think we all love your Father. Nice guy and when he whips that dictionary brain of his out I just salivate (I am so hungry to know - people who explain things well are worth a million books)

[ScarlettoSara]

I think I am not firing on all cylinders anymore and I am with you Frank. Sometimes I can figure out these threads and sometimes I cant.
Willie who is your father? I am sorry I dont remember you talking about him before? Is he also a forum member?
I am loving your gems Willie. Thank you:)

[39don]

Nice Portuguese cut you have there Willie. As far as your father, he will do fine and may not need the dictionary. I sort of doubt it though.

Don

[39don]

Here are some more stones I faceted way back when I had the patience.......  

Rutilated Quartz, Oval Cut


Rutilated Quartz, Oval Cut


Citrine Quartz, Modified Mine


Citrine Quartz, Modified Mine


Rose Quartz, Madagascar Emerald Cut


Rose Quartz, Madagascar Emerald Cut


Rose Quartz, Madagascar Emerald Cut



Blue Russian Lab Quartz


Blue Russian Lab Quartz



Green YAG, Emerald Cut


Rutilated Quartz, Large Brilliant Cut


Don

[ScarlettoSara]

OMG Don why havent you shown these to us before? I love them!!!!!!
I have a little piece of rutilated quartz I got back about 100 years ago in a gem and mineral show in Georgia. With the expectation I would do a wire wrap for a ring. LOL

[lithicbeads]

 Love that rutilated quartz!

[39don]

OMG Don why havent you shown these to us before? I love them!!!!!!
I have a little piece of rutilated quartz I got back about 100 years ago in a gem and mineral show in Georgia. With the expectation I would do a wire wrap for a ring. LOL  

I had these stashed back to give to my youngest grands as all of the older one's have already selected the stones they wanted. Plus having this faceting thread to come up brought back a lot of memorys. My photo skills have improved too so I though I would show some here.

It's hard for me to believe you picked up the rutilated quartz about 100 years ago and have a son to finish high school recently......

I'm trying to find a faceted Mexican jelly opal I have mounted in sterling silver to show you, no luck as yet.

Don

[ScarlettoSara]

LOLOLOL Well my name is Sara and she had child when she was 80:P

[39don]

LOLOLOL Well my name is Sara and she had child when she was 80:P

Dream onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.........

[3rdRockFromTheFun]

Don - those are incredible - esp (to me anyway) your choice of stones - swa-heet!

Sarah - Father is lithic beads

[ScarlettoSara]

Aww I missed that part. I am so sorry, that must have been the day I was on the Dark Side of the moon.
I love your Dad too Willie:)

[Eu_citzen]

Helene,
 that is exactly the theoretical part you quoted.
I was thinking more practical, how do you do it?

I'm thinking of doing myself a dopstick with a 8 - 10 degrees angle where the dopping cement (glue) goes.
That way I only have to open the cleavage and attach it to the dopstick, the cutting will automatically be at the right angle.

Frank,
If something is over your head, ask!

Sara,

LOL!
What confusion, my old man isn't part of this forum.
His english is *cough* *cough* not the best.

And no I haven't talked about him before..
A while back he didn't want to try, now he does..

Don, he's getting one just in case!

I love that quartz with the rutile, not the easiest to polish - the needles can cause trouble.

That "mine cut" sure looks interesting!
Don't think I've seen that one before, looks really nice!

That rose quartz is a gem, man you don't see such clean material to often any more.

[Hummingbirdstones]

Hi Willie,

I'm just a novice with faceting, but I've been reading about it for many years.  From what I've read about topaz, all you need to do is locate the cleavage plane, then grind your flat for dopping the 8 - 10 degrees off of it.  That should do it.  I know there are a couple of faceting lists (the Aussies have one) and I belong to the USFG list on Yahoo.  Anyone can join, just go to Yahoo Groups and join.  There's a wealth of information there, the folks are all really helpful and the archives will keep you occupied for the rest of your life.  There's tons of good information in the folders people have uploaded to as well, and lots of free designs if you ever inclined to cut something someone else has worked up in GemCad.

[Helene]

What Robin said is exactly how I did mine.  Just eyeballed it and had no problems. 

[Eu_citzen]

Robin,
Good to see you joining in, didn't know you also where a faceter! 
I've heard of the faceting lists, just never bothered to join.
Got enough forums to visit either way.. lol

As far as designs go, I do most of mine myself.
I have some in "faceting for amateurs" by Vargas when I don't feel like doing my own designs.
I also have one or two of Jeff Graham's designs scattered around here..somewhere..

I understand Helene, Thanks!

Here's a test cut of a design, in a colour shifting garnet. Pretty good.
Going to optimize it, then I could share it, the design that is.



Which has me wondering, can we share PDF's here?
Edit* Just found it. Will test it soon.

[Eu_citzen]

Testing to share one of my designs, the design in the pic above optimized for RI 1.72.
The test cut was not optimized, so this should do better I hope!

Garnet, Spinell among other should be good in that design.. :)

[ScarlettoSara]

I love that garnet and the six fold cut:) Very much:)

[Eu_citzen]

Thank you Sara. :)

[lonelygems]

I went for a while....back here and found much more lovely faceted gems....i enjoy this thread and try to learn and remember tips as much as i can to use later, thanks for sharing Willie, Don, Helene and Robin...

[Hummingbirdstones]

Willie, I wouldn't call myself a faceter yet.  Rank amateur, still trying to teach myself little by little.  Wish I had more time to devote to it, but dang, life gets in the way!   

The USFG list is an email list, so I get them in digest form in my email and look them over when I have a few minutes.  I don't read everything, but you can also go to the Yahoo Groups website and do searches for specific topics if you need info on something in particular.  The beauty of it is that there are some all star pros on the list and the information they freely give is priceless.

I know you have a Redwing (I have one, too, unused as of yet), but Gearloose also has info on building your own machine if you (and Daniel!) are interested here:  http://www.gearloose.com/why.html

He also just released a new polishing lap called the Creamway which uses zirconium oxide as the polish -- specifically for polishing quartz and beryls as well as others.

I'm the proud owner of one of Jon's XS3 faceting heads.  Now if I can only get good enough to do it justice!   

[lonelygems]

Thank you for the link Robin.....i bookmarked it 

[Eu_citzen]

Robin,

I know of the e-mail list to. Just to lazy.

I have the model that came after the redwing, the BattWing.
It uses an outer band of BATT alloy and a Darkside alloy on the inside for polishing.

I've looked at Jon's webbsite, also many good tips.
Been following his progress a while now..

Gotta run though,
Willie

[NuevoMundo]

Wow, it sure looks like there is a lot of interest in faceting among our members, not to mention some great talent! There is lots of great info in this thread, but the thread is getting so long I am afraid some of that info may get hard to find... I think it may be time for a faceting board on this forum. Just promise me you guys will keep contributing new posts and populating the board with great info like that found in this thread!

[christopherl1234]

My wife gave me a old American Facetor for Christmas of 2010. I have yet to use it. I really need to break that machine out and start making mistakes so I can learn.

I still am a little baffled by the pavilion. When you are roughing it in at the beginning how do you know how deep to go, especially with an odd shaped piece of rough? Maybe that is a silly question because of the indicator but that only gives me the angle. Is it pretty much trial and error until you can fit all your facets cleanly on the pavilion? I guess what I am getting at is how do you estimate a piece of rough? How thick does it have to be?
Thank you for your patience everyone.

[Buck75]

I have a old facetor with a burned out motor. :( I would like to try faceting someday but till I can get my hands on a machine that works or make something that'll work it'll be awhile till I get to.

[lithicbeads]

   A good faceting design will have ratios available. These ratios are length / width , height to width, pavillion / width etc. The design will also indicate which facet will cut to the depth of the pavillion and whether this is the permanent meet or a temporary meet. A beginning meetpoint book that takes you from easy cuts to harder cuts in a logical learning progression is worth it's weight in gold.

[Eu_citzen]

Nuevo, no promises but we'll do our best! lol

Christopher,

It depends on the pavilion, let's say we have 2 types of pavilions on "standard" designs:

1. Knife edge culet, basically just a long, thin line in the centre of the stone.

In the roughing in stage, lets as an example say you use a 360 lap.
You grind until everything is in that nice little line, every facet "touches" that line.
Something like this:


Compare with this one which hasn't been cut deep enough, you can see not all facets are "meeting" that line, some are down right missing!



2. Culet, basically a centerpoint where all the "main" facets meet.

How to cut it varies, I like to cut in the break facets on the pavilion first to a centerpoint. They would all make a sharp point on the stone, and no facet should look longer/shorter then the other under magnification.

I'm not sure this makes sense if your new, if I remember I'll take pics next time I facet a stone to show what I'm talking about. Pics can say more then a thousand words.
But it looks like I have some re-cuts first in line.

Connie, depending on what kind of motor maybe it can be replaced?

Frank,
I agree a good book is helpful. But these ratios is something I've never cared about, except to make out the size of the table.

[Eu_citzen]

Christopher, I'll get started on my little faceting tutorial "re: how deep to cut?"
Just dopped a topaz, It'll take a while though.

Lots to do the next couple of days. :)

[lonelygems]

Coool Willie....you're so kind, we are more than glad to learn faceting from you.......

[Eu_citzen]

Learn faceting?
I'll only try to answer questions best I can, I'm not that experienced yet either. :)

[ScarlettoSara]

I think you are magnificent teacher and seem to understand the stones:) If they dont think you love them they wont show all their glory for you. Kinda like mules:)

[lonelygems]

  , agreed with Sara.......

[Eu_citzen]

Thanks you two, I try my best. :)

[Rockrangers]

Great tutorial you have going on this thread Willie! Really enjoy reading it. Fantastic cuts.
Todd

[Eu_citzen]

Thanks Todd, you found your way over here to? Good to see you budd.

[maialetto]

This looks like a good place to post my favorite stones from the ones I've cut. I had to stop cabbing (that's why I'm inactive on this board), but I still do some faceting. But I plan to restart cabbing hopefully not in a long time. :)

This is my favorite faceting design to cut. And I like to cut it in quartz. Here it is a nice family photo:


This is my favorite combination cut, so far:


My favorite feldspar:


My favorite (?) tourmaline:


When I show this citrine quartz to people in person they cannot stop staring at it. Hypnotic...


Last a gem "made in USA" (literally: it's Oregon sunstone and I cut it in the US* ~ 1 month ago)



* Yup, I've moved back to US... 

[lithicbeads]

  Thanks , very nice . Love the feldspar!

[helens]

WOW!!! Did not see this earlier, but omg those are amazing!!

[39don]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Super excellent faceting. You rock for sure.

39don

[Eu_citzen]

Very nice Marco!

[Steve]

[abuahmad]

i am very excited to begin faceting, but the tools is most expensive...

[SilverStone Jewelry]

I'm so amazed at all the talent here!  I have never faceted but very impressed by what I am seeing.  WoW

[guest5707]

Greetings, I have this purple spinel and wonder if you folks know anything about this type of faceting? It is 19k gold (often used in Portugal). Estimated age around 200 years old. Thank you.