Lapidary / Gemstone Community Forum

Lapidary Shop => Slab Saws, Trim Saws, Blades & Lubricants For Both / General Operating => Topic started by: Mary Ann on May 19, 2011, 10:07:38 am



Title: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Mary Ann on May 19, 2011, 10:07:38 am
I found a tutorial on the website stonageindustries that addressed gluing small rocks and end cuts to wood. I've read a lot about gluing on the ends of 2 x 4's (for example) but when I read through these it could also be interpreted that the stone is glued on top of a board and the stone and board are both fed though the saw. If that is the case, wouldn't the wood gum up the blade?

This sentence is the one that had me thinking that it is glued on top:
 
I usually leave a little of the stone's slabbed surface sticking out so I can line the rock up correctly

http://stoneageindustries.com/gluing_stones_on_blocks_of_wood.html[/url]



Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: spirit bear beads on May 19, 2011, 10:41:25 am
Mary Ann,  I'm no expert, but you don't saw the wood...   The 2x4 is in the clamp and the rock sticks out past the end of the clamp and into the path of the blade to be sawn....  I will try to get a picture for you unless someone else posts one first!


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: john likes rocks! on May 19, 2011, 02:05:34 pm
 I doubt a diamond saw could cut wood ... but a wood-chuck.... well...

I think they might be describing how to line up a rock that already has a cut, so the last slab won't be beveled.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Mary Ann on May 19, 2011, 02:14:17 pm
I doubt a diamond saw could cut wood ... but a wood-chuck.... well...

I should know this. headbang18  Obviously my brain took a vacation. The way it was worded (leaving a little bit of the slabbed surface sticking out) had me stumped. I'm used to lining up the cut edge of a previously slabbed rock, but sticking out had me thinking he meant it differently.

Thanks to both of you for clearing my brain fog!


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: hulagrub on May 19, 2011, 05:31:38 pm
Nancie (fatsister) told me to try gorilla glue, and it works great. Hope these pix help. You put the glue on the 2x4 and set the rock on top and it has enough weight to afix it to the wood. You use a screwdriver and a hammer to lightly separate the end cut from the wood.
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.varockhounder.com%2Fuploads%2F2011051916269193.JPG&hash=2f77b72f78415d1f2c444cdcc3350309)
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.varockhounder.com%2Fuploads%2F2011051916267630.JPG&hash=43db4d0caa97b1b68f8f8e3b7fa527ad)
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.varockhounder.com%2Fuploads%2F2011051916262753.JPG&hash=016966ce398a9b51bd04256f88a7f1d3)
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.varockhounder.com%2Fuploads%2F2011051916262735.JPG&hash=e46f2db5b9fab8ae860b59227d53c1be)
The last is a Madagascar ready for the saw.
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.varockhounder.com%2Fuploads%2F2011051916261210.JPG&hash=200889bf46ee21bf8660289ffc4a7135)


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: hulagrub on May 19, 2011, 05:36:15 pm
BTW, the oily 2x4, makes great kindling. Only use it once.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Taogem on May 19, 2011, 05:36:47 pm
I doubt a diamond saw could cut wood ... but a wood-chuck.... well...



 saved12

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.istockphoto.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F5012047%2F2%2Fistockphoto_5012047-cartoon-beaver.jpg&hash=847e52b92360aced5db6092b17a3fe07)


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Rockoteer on May 19, 2011, 07:40:16 pm
Mary Ann, I do this a lot....you get to cut every bit of your stone and it is quite secure when you tighted down on the 2 X 4...
Dave has it down pat...just follow his lead.

TOG


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: christopherl1234 on May 19, 2011, 11:54:52 pm
Dave,

I recently tried using Gorilla Glue. I checked it the following day and I was able to pull the stone off with just my hand. What am I doing wrong?


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Mary Ann on May 20, 2011, 08:00:48 am
Thank you everyone! The pictures are great, visuals are always very helpful. Thank you.

It looks like the ends that are glued are somewhat small. How large a piece can this method be used on?

Also, back to my original question, at least some version of it. I am wondering if it's possible that leftover strips of various sizes of tiles with their surfaces roughed would work as a base that the stone would sit on. That way both the rock and the tile would be fed through at the same time. If the tile piece is wider than the rock it sits on and hits the blade first, then the amount of pressure on the rock at any given point would not be as great as if the rock was glued to the end and hanging out there. There would also be no vertical pressure on the glue joint.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: hulagrub on May 20, 2011, 08:04:39 am
Mary Ann, guess I don't get the picture with your last question. This is pretty simple and straight forward.
Christopher, Let it set another day, did you get as much surace area as possible between the rock and 2x4?


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: spirit bear beads on May 20, 2011, 01:19:51 pm
Gorilla glue.... dampen the wood slightly also...  I let mine set up at least a week.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Mary Ann on May 20, 2011, 01:32:07 pm
Mary Ann, guess I don't get the picture with your last question. This is pretty simple and straight forward.

I meant to have the stone sitting on top of the tile (vs sitting at the end of a piece of wood) as it is fed through the saw. The portion of tile that the rock is not on, would be what is clamped in the vise. I felt if there was any pressure exerted on the rock from the process of running through the blade, the stress on the glue joint would be less this way and the stone might be less likely to pop off and damage a blade. Granted, you would lose some of the material next to the tile  because of the glue, unless you used the Elmer's or waterglass.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: hulagrub on May 20, 2011, 05:07:24 pm
Mary Ann, I have also used Elmers, but clamped the rock to the wood. I jerk on the rocks really good before clamping the whole rig in the vise, if they don't come off then, I have no problems.
Big ones or little ones, the whole idea is to maximize the number of slabs you can get from the rough.
Also, a diamond blade, easily cuts the wood, with no bad leftover results.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Rockoteer on May 20, 2011, 05:56:03 pm

The last rock I clamped to wood I used super glue, the medium density stuff.  It held real good but I thought It was a little expensive to use...maybe not....I need to figure this out.

TOG


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: slabbercabber on May 20, 2011, 06:34:39 pm
I like Gorilla glue also, but I go ahead and cut through the glue joint to separate.  Too many broken slabs using the pry method.  If the glue does not hold, you may not have gotten all the oil off.  Good point about moistening the wood first.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: RockIt2Me on May 20, 2011, 09:19:51 pm
I use gorilla glue glued to a a piece of  hard maple.  Luckily I have alot of old maple flooring scraps.
 I  let it dry overnight and have had very few rocks break loose.
I use a screwdriver to tap off the rock, then use the radial arm to slice off the oily end and re-use the wood.

I like gorilla glue because it expands so the rock doesn't have to have a flat spot.  I have even glued thunder eggs with great success.
I have to glue about 90% of my cuts with my saw set-up and this has worked best for me.

Nancie


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: vesche on May 20, 2011, 09:26:01 pm
In reply to the basic question of securing material for cutting I use one of several methods. Sodium silicate is my choice of bonding most previously cut material to a wood slab( 2x4, 4x4, 1x2) that can be fed parallel to the blade.  I coat both surfaces and then press together. I always seal the perimeter seam to fill any voids and wait a couple of days before I cut . If I have a high value piece that needs yo be split because it is too thich I then cut a larger low value rock and then adhere the good slab with sodium silicate once the oil is cleaned from the base piece.  I use spongy foam to keep the two pieces pressed together until the bonding material is well set.  When cutting rough I bond to wood using Loctite PL premium polyurethane construction adhesive and apply to both surfaces before pressing together. I let the adhesive dry until the adhesive is hard.  The wood pieces are cut so that they wiill fit in the vise with material bonded to each end flipped over once the first rock is cut.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: MrsWTownsend on May 20, 2011, 11:00:46 pm
Thank you everyone! The pictures are great, visuals are always very helpful. Thank you.

It looks like the ends that are glued are somewhat small. How large a piece can this method be used on?

Also, back to my original question, at least some version of it. I am wondering if it's possible that leftover strips of various sizes of tiles with their surfaces roughed would work as a base that the stone would sit on. That way both the rock and the tile would be fed through at the same time. If the tile piece is wider than the rock it sits on and hits the blade first, then the amount of pressure on the rock at any given point would not be as great as if the rock was glued to the end and hanging out there. There would also be no vertical pressure on the glue joint.


OK let me see if I understand this~ you want to glue the tile to the rock and then orient the tile to the BOTTOM in the clamp, cutting through the rock and the tile?  I am not sure why you would want to do this (if I perceive the question correctly).  The concept of gluing the backing to the stone is so that you can clamp onto the backing (wood piece) with the whole of the stone end protruding out past the clam end, which would allow you to slab all the way to the very last allowable thickness of the end piece and utilize the entire stone.  If your material is clean, you use the right type of glue and the glue has set, pressure on the glue joint shouldn't be an issue.

Regarding the size of the wood pieces being used, it is just a matter of how big you cut the piece of wood and/or the size of the scrap material you have on hand to use.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Mary Ann on May 21, 2011, 08:10:26 am
Thank you everyone! Valuable advice, as always. I had read so many situations of rocks coming loose and ruining a blade that I was hesitant to try the method. I should have more faith! I will follow the precautions and probably try one with gorilla glue since I have some lying around. Looks like I have a bunch of scrap wood to scrounge up.

I would like to try the waterglass, however if I remember, I had trouble locating it last time I was searching for a source. Any suggestions?

I also like the idea of gluing a rock on both ends of the wood piece.


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Mary Ann on May 21, 2011, 08:15:43 am
OK let me see if I understand this~ you want to glue the tile to the rock and then orient the tile to the BOTTOM in the clamp, cutting through the rock and the tile?  I am not sure why you would want to do this (if I perceive the question correctly). 

I was just overthinking the whole process, lol. My thought was to still have the entire rock cut (the tile piece would be longer than the rock and the unglued section would be clamped in the vise) so the entire rock could be cut also). Just my usual way of wasting time trying to re-invent the wheel! I need to remember, if it ain't broke (or in this case if a method has worked for years) don't try to fix it. Listen to the experts!


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: hulagrub on May 21, 2011, 08:43:22 am
Mary Ann, I am only an expert at try and error and error and error...


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: Rockoteer on May 21, 2011, 08:46:13 am
Mary Ann, I am only an expert at try and error and error and error...

Like most of us out here.

TOG


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: gregorgr8 on May 21, 2011, 02:43:41 pm
I would like to try the waterglass, however if I remember, I had trouble locating it last time I was searching for a source. Any suggestions?

It was years ago but I got some waterglass  (= sodium silicate)  at a pharmacy

these days I would try google first


Title: Re: Gluing to Wood
Post by: trigon on August 05, 2015, 11:15:28 pm
I had been gluing to wood for several years, mostly to great success. Recently, I've switched to a slightly different system. I've been getting scrap Granite and Marble from a local shop that fabs kitchen counter-tops. They're happy to let me make off with all I can carry at $5 per 5 gallon bucket. I square up the ragged pieces on a tile saw and glue my rocks onto the squares with super glue from Harbor Freight. The stones are ready to slab in a few minutes, no waiting for glue to cure as with wood. Removal when I'm done cutting is easy, too. I just slab the end off the Granite or Marble. It is rock after all. Also, the pieces are re-usable with a little cleaning.