Lapidary / Gemstone Community Forum

Hi all,
At Bob's suggestion I'm starting a new thread.

The question came up about the variation in domes, especially high domes but all domes are useful.

Would anyone please show us some photos of the Top View [with dimensions or ruler beside].
Also the Side Elevation from the shortest side [with dimensions or ruler beside];
Also the Side Elevation from the longest side [with dimensions or ruler beside;
Also, what was the approximate thickness of the slab you started with. [guesstimates are fine].
Also any special notes or comments about how you did it, if possible would also be appreciated.

Thanks a bunch for any help on this. ura12

Hello Carol,
here are a couple for you :)
Sorry my camera is gone at the moment so only have stored photos...so missing the end views
rose quartz heart:
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auctionzealot.com%2Fmembers%2Fimakedust%2Fs6303358.jpg&hash=d406085347135d3480a85acad0794132)
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auctionzealot.com%2Fmembers%2Fimakedust%2Fs6303361.jpg&hash=51ead36bfa8562a478c284ceb8d64926)
Rutile in quartz drop:
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auctionzealot.com%2Fmembers%2Fimakedust%2Fs6303345.jpg&hash=22cff4f32012e6bf1a98676e0037166a)
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auctionzealot.com%2Fmembers%2Fimakedust%2Fs6303348.jpg&hash=4e67d3928d10e093e200163b66c61da6)

The rutile was an end cut and the rose quartz slab was about 11mm thick. I do not usually cut such thick slabs but this is star quartz and I was looking for the star :) ...I missed it on this one, but found it in another directions.

Hope this helps a little!

Those are exceptionally high domes...mine are about half or one-third that.

WOW, that's a really thick slab at 11mm.
It certainly shows off the rutiles in the quartz drop.

Are they intended for wire-wrapping or what??
Do you sell them or are they for your own use??
Just curious.  hide35

:)
Yes, they are very high for the size. I don't normally cut slabs that thick, but it does happen from time to time, most of my stones vary from 3.5mm to 6mm thick.

Yes I do sell them, I have an e-store on eCrator. I used to sell a lot on eBay, but when I started doing production cutting for a client, I found, I just do not have the time for eBay anymore. The stones in my store are what I cut for "stress relief" while cutting 50 to 200 stones of the same size, shape, and color (it can drive a person nuts).

As for what they were intended for, well, that's up to the person who buys them :) I used to do wire wrapping and sell them at craft shows, so most of my stones have a thicker girdle than normal.

This stone is sold so I just have a couple of file pictures but you can get a fair idea of the dome. This piece was about as high as you can go given the length and still get a stone with pleasing proportions , extreme but pleasing . The length was about 30 mm and the height was about 20 mm. The bottom on this stone was far from flat , it had a bit more dome on the bottom than bobby1's cab above . Since this was a translucent stone light return was very important and a curved bottom gives that light return. The curve was not a problem for setting because this type stone would only be used in a custom setting . The picture looking down on it shows the advantage of the domed bottom , it lights the stone up from below.

Great thread Carol - can't wait to see more but already impressed as those (esp the first) were much different than I'd have guessed from the pictures.  yes16

Neat eh?? yippie24
I'm also amazed at the high domes and I'm becoming a huge fan of rutile quartz.  Very cool.
Hope to get lots more.

lithic's lovely double domed rutile made me look for the other cab I cut from that rose quartz :) Like I said, I was looking for the star so cut the slab thick for a nice high dome.

Here's the star:
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auctionzealot.com%2Fmembers%2Fimakedust%2Fs6304435.jpg&hash=5878b0d9de3e215259b0107913708c76)
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auctionzealot.com%2Fmembers%2Fimakedust%2Fs6304437.jpg&hash=bfe1a7592d65ee35d78d5bf0d93b1621)
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auctionzealot.com%2Fmembers%2Fimakedust%2Fs6304443.jpg&hash=8d2377e49c3ddcc162d70aa610be2c02)

polished on all sides, but a slight dome on the back so you still get a star :)
Please forgive my finger prints all over the place! I must have dropped that one 5 times while taking the photos :)

Hi Sheila,
I had no idea that you could 'see a star' in Rose Quartz....but you certainly can.
Very cool!! yes16

How did you do that??
Can that be done in all Rose Quartz or just in 'special Rose Quartz'??

Love quartz stars. There used o be a source in the Pala district for translucent blue star quartz. Thanks for the special treat .

Thanks for the showy quartz star!  There's another source for asteriated quartz in several colors from a location near Hallelujah Junction CA/NV.  And of course the famous Hogg Mine Rose Quartz location in Georgia.

Seeing imakedust's and lithicbeads' interesting rutilated quartz cab reminded me of one I cut some time back that's anything but a conventional shape and thickness!  The rough had a truncated bundle of golden rutile crystals surrounded by "Angels' Hair" single crystals but it had fractures in very inconvenient places.  I was determined to cut a designer cab to showcase the rutile bundle with a minimum of fractures in the clear quartz.  That meant it had to have a compound-curved back.  It might be a little trouble to set but I like the final effect. It has a high dome with overall measurements of 28.39 x 21.66 x 11.88 mm.

Front View: 

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1316.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft620%2Fgemfeller%2FDCab47_zps7d454b4c.jpg&hash=2778f1f03965c8c0259ba7cd2b24958d)

Side View:

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1316.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft620%2Fgemfeller%2FDSCN9795_zps1f42366e.jpg&hash=ad86967ddfd565f490723bd5597ff97e)
   

Hi. Did an old-style high dome for a school project a few years ago. Photo skills weren't so great then either, so I hope these pics are okay. This was from a chunk instead of a slab... .

Vince, did you do that dome free hand, or did you use one of them cup thingies. Anybody have any plans or instructions on making one of those things that will screw into my Ameritool flat lap so that I can do perfectly round domes?

Hi. That was freehand, with shaping done on a Genie and polish on Inland with foam-backed resin disks and polishing pads.

That style of dome profile is one I have to dop to even get them close, so at least that one did go on a stick. Usually don't dop unless it's a shape I can't pull off holding stone in hand.

Don't have one of the cup thingies... .

This is getting so cool!!! yes16

Gemfeller, your rutilles are 'to die for'. yippie24
I know what you mean about setting it though....you almost have to design some sort of a prong arrangement to hold it, or perhaps treat it like a piece of glass and epoxy it to an interesting 'cap' if it's to be jewelry but as it is it's probably stunning as a display piece.

Vitzitziltecpatl [btw, where in heck did you come up with this username???  No clue how to pronounce it dunno28
Anyway your freehand green chrysoprase is lovely.  Looks like a breeze to bezel set.  How large is it [approximately, if you don't have it anymore]?  yes16

gemfeller, I love the shape on that clear rutile! It's beautiful! and vitzitziltecpatl that chrysoprase looks down right edible!

suprizingly enough, it's supposed to be rutile inclusions in the rose quartz that causes the star :) At least that's what I have read so far...

Most of the rose quartz that I have cut, have shown some indcation that there was the possibility of staring. But I purchased this rough as "star quartz"  and that was one of the lower grade pieces that I used for practing on :)

Lithic, at one point, about 15 years ago, I almost had my grubby little finger on some of that blue star quartz...but by the time I got to the vendor, they were all sold out :(

My  dome "Thingy"
It is an inverted chuck with a small cup device that I made. I made these cups up to about 1-1/2" for hand making small spheres.
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi151.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs160%2FRocksbob%2FNew%2520Photos%2FLittle014.jpg&hash=6ba2d4ee77189af971a32aeb0370b179) (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Rocksbob/media/New%20Photos/Little014.jpg.html)
A small cab of Idocrase mounted on a dop stick.
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi151.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs160%2FRocksbob%2FNew%2520Photos%2FLittle011.jpg&hash=b229cd94d4cb5623c77d30711aca5d31) (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Rocksbob/media/New%20Photos/Little011.jpg.html)
Another view.
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi151.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs160%2FRocksbob%2FNew%2520Photos%2FLittle009.jpg&hash=7d9747fcb5512088d2106f427e353772) (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Rocksbob/media/New%20Photos/Little009.jpg.html)
The finished cab.
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi151.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs160%2FRocksbob%2FNew%2520Photos%2FLittle016.jpg&hash=477c60eab7fd715f999ff7add19e3187) (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Rocksbob/media/New%20Photos/Little016.jpg.html)
I made this cab for a piece of jewelry that I started a couple years ago. I haven't finished the jewelry piece yet. (distracted).
Bob

Thanks for your comment on my rutilated cab.  As for the cause of stars in rose quartz, recent research suggests it's not rutile but fibrous inclusions of dumortierite that gives it both its rather "foggy" appearance and color and ability to show stars.

There's a very interesting Brazilian star quartz on the current market.  It comes in a whitish hue and pale citrine or smoky quartz hues.  I was able to photograph the tiny rutile crystals in one but I've lost the image.  It makes great stars in big stones -- this one's almost 22 carats: 

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1316.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft620%2Fgemfeller%2FDCab275a_zps8b216ab8.jpg&hash=faa0227daa64982ad60d218b3615c63f)

 That's a wow stone!

Bob, that is the most perfect little round!

gemfeller, I just found a site that talked about that :) Cool!
I really envy your ability to photograph clear stones! mine come out cloudy even when they are not  dunno28

I went through my photo bucket album looking for recent stones that have side views.  Here is a nice set of Blue Ice agate, slab was 1/4" to begin with.  I don't have a ruler in my pictures but you can reference size by my fingers.

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi671.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv74%2Fkgniot0709%2F2013%2FP1060489_zps847d694a.jpg&hash=a802f54447bc45d3dd89794ddec776e2) (http://s671.photobucket.com/user/kgniot0709/media/2013/P1060489_zps847d694a.jpg.html)
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(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi671.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv74%2Fkgniot0709%2F2013%2FP1060495_zps02d1694a.jpg&hash=8a5fe4f0d74d298a3c69f8ffe8615840) (http://s671.photobucket.com/user/kgniot0709/media/2013/P1060495_zps02d1694a.jpg.html)

The 2 small ones were dopped on nails with super glue, the pendant was free hand.

Thanks for the kind comments on the Chrysoprase. That one was approximately 18x14x8 and was cut from a piece the lapidary instructor brought in not intending to sell. Talked him out of it and used a piece for one of our class assignments. He loved it and said "I want that rough back... ." He didn't get it back, and I sold that cab for $65. Got some of the tuition back!

The username? Split it up into three-letter groups, except for the last four letters (pah-tul) for the pronounciation. It's the Aztec word for "hummingbird stone"- their name for opals - and it took me a very long time to get my tongue to twist enough to spit that word out reliably.

We named our website hummingbird stones because of the Aztec name for opals. My wife Robin has the hummingbirdstones username here on the forum so I took the Aztec word for my username.

These are gorgeous Krystee, as always.
It's surprising when you hold the two smaller white cabs together, how the color variation shows up at that view but from top view they look the same color.   Doesn't take much with white.

Anyway, I know you have [or have had] some long very irregular cabs that are freeform but appear to have high domes.  I recall a gorgeous long blue stone but don't remember whether it was chrysocolla or something else, and I recall several other large sort of kite shaped cabs that had relatively high domes........if you still have them or have photos from the side view, can you post them?

The whole reason that this thread began was....  walker23
Several of us [especially, but not limited to me] are trying to understand how you [or anyone] chooses to shape a long cab like 40mm plus long by maybe 20 or 30mm wide with a lovely polished finish and as high a dome as you can get with a 1/4" thick slab.
Things like, how thick does the girdle end up being and is the slope sudden at certain points or constantly gradual!!!!!
There's nothing like photos to 'tell the tale'!!!
[plus they're great to drool over].

Bob, I'm fascinated by the 'inverted chuck with a small cup device that you made'.  Especially that it makes cups up to 1-1/2".   
The half-dome cabs are fabulous. yippie24

Could you take some 'close up' shots of the actual 'cup part'? 

Possibly it's my vision but I can't tell, in the shot you posted, how it's made or what it's made of.   dunno28

To my eyes [that are 'granted' getting older] the tip just looks like a cup shaped blob of beeswax.  hide35

Maybe you could start a separate thread and post a link here, so others can also see it??!! ura12

Hmmmm..... something like this Carol?

This is 45mm x 20mm with a 3mm girdle.  Just finished this Sugilite up a couple days ago.  All of my cabs have a 3mm girdle regardless of whether they end up being high dome or low dome. 

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi671.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv74%2Fkgniot0709%2F2013%2FP1070226_zpse117b7e4.jpg&hash=3c3b4b45bd0c47866487cb74196f9e53) (http://s671.photobucket.com/user/kgniot0709/media/2013/P1070226_zpse117b7e4.jpg.html)

Side view got all smudgy with my fingerprints but the angle shows up nicely.
(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi671.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv74%2Fkgniot0709%2F2013%2FP1070242_zps6f500a47.jpg&hash=4e08f60eb40d7ce02dde96a14797a281) (http://s671.photobucket.com/user/kgniot0709/media/2013/P1070242_zps6f500a47.jpg.html)

Yep Krystee, that looks like a perfectly graduated dome to me. Some people like lower domes - the lapidary instructor at the local college, for one - but I like the proportions of that Sugilite.

The point about 3mm girdles is good. I guess a good answer to the question of how much slope and what shape the dome will take all depends on the thickness of the slab, the girdle height, and the face size of the stone.

Highest part of the dome would be the center of the largest part that Sugilite and the profile of the dome will take care of itself with nice gradual changes in the curvature. That way the reflection from a light source will never have any sudden changes as it rolls across the face of the stone.

Wow. It's a lot harder to try to put all that into words than it is to do it... .

EXACTLY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT KRYSTEE!!!!!,
OMG!!!
Drool....Drool  party1  [gotta find a good 'smiley' for drooling!!!!]

Thanks so much Krystee.  That is stunning  It's also very interesting to know that you maintain a 3mm girdle all around. 

Do you dome the whole cab and then 're-establish the 3mm girdle' or is there some knack for not screwing it up as you're smoothing and doming?? dunno28

OK....we've started the 'drool line' going.
Anybody else??? [or more from Krystee]....
[I'm sittin' here with my lobster bib on and I'm all set for more] yippie24
Bring it on!!!

This is cool, I'm really getting a kick (and a lot of technical help at a glance) just by looking at these sweet pieces from the side - thanks so much for sharing and thanks again Carol for posting this thread! yes16

You're very welcome, Frank.
Actually it was Bob's brilliant idea for the subject.....so thanks Bob, from all of us for the suggestion.
Re 'getting a lot of technical help at a glance.....I totally agree with you.  'One picture is worth.....'.

Wow - I don't know how but I totally missed the cup thing even though I saw the chuck in the picture... BOB - please elaborate! I want to make one of these - that is so cool! yes16

 You can do the initial stage without  grit as I have many times. Get a core drill the size of about 4/5 the diameter of the finished radius you want and preform by hand a stone as round as you can get , Mount the bit facing up and put the preform on it  and start it rotating . You need a piece of copper tubing the same general diameter as the drill core and you hold it to the preform above center off to the side . The preform will begin turning and you move the copper tube to keep a random rotation of the rough until it is round. You then have a marble.
  If you use a dopped stone you rotate the drill bit and move the dopped stone in various motions to grind the half sphere. If you use copper tubes and grit instead of the core drill bit put a bit of rag inside to keep the grit near the top of the tube , The tube edges then become razor sharp so be careful. I modified my all-u -need when I did this and it worked perfectly .

Carol,

I tried to do a video for you regarding how I preform before doming on a flat lap.  Just like every video though that I have ever attempted, I always have at least one kid come into the shop while videoing and exclaiming "Mom!!!".   lol15

This video is after the roughing out preform and what I do with the girdle and shape before I start to dome it.  I'm certain that I am much different than most as I learned through trial and error regarding what worked best for me.  This is how I start each cab though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCTA_-j45Jg&feature=youtu.be

good job Krystee

Hi again Krystee,
You totally underestimate the value of your videos and your teaching!!!! yippie24
This is fabulous!!!   ura12
It's changing the way I'm going to work!!!

After the girdle line, you really 'go for it' in the first angle!!!  It looks from the surface of the stone and from the 180 written on your flat lap disc that this angle is done at that grit. 
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!

Any chance for 'the next step' video  [even if you're using different stones??? [grovel, grovel]

I'm asking because the middle of the cab at this point, which is flat, is [relatively speaking], fairly large.

Also once the girdle is set, since the length of the first major angle is fairly long, is your next move to make another marking line and do progressively steeper angles so that you have a 'series of stepped angles' in flat sections, and then blend them to the top???
Or is that it on the flat steps and you go to the colored sanding discs after one steep angle and just blend it, or what?

I guess what I'm basically asking for is if you could do a Part 2 video.....just like the last one....with the machine turned off and a 'pre-done stone'.....but showing how many 'flat steps' you'd normally do, while you're at the 180 grit. dunno28

Or , if that one steep angle 'is it', show 'what's next' in shaping so you don't end up with a large flat spot on top. hide35

Krystee.....you're a doll!!!

Re the kids interruptions....no worries......that's life!!!
They don't call you 'tntMOM' for nothin'!!!  yes16

Thank you, again.
Huge E-Hug,

Here are some photos of the various sizes of cups that I use to make perfectly shaped half -spheres or fully rounded spheres.  made these on a metal lathe using various sizes of round stock. Some have a
smooth stem for gripping in a Jacobs chuck and others have a 1/4-20 threaded rod for the stems that I use in flat lap machines with a threaded hole for mounting the laps. The hole for the cup is made with various drill bits. They leave a cone shape but it rather quickly wears into a dome shape. If I'm  doing a half sphere I dop the stone so I can hold it for the shaping. For spheres I hand hold the stone. When I'm hand holding the stone I wear exam gloves from Costco because the S/C tumbling grit will really stain your hands. I dip the stone in water then into 120 grit tumbling grit and roll it about in the cup. I then proceed down to 220, 400 and sometimes 600 grit. Then I dop it and go to the polishing pad.
Bob
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Now THAT IS SERIOUSLY CLEVER design idea, Bob.

It blows my mind the things people come up with!!!

Where do you get the POSH stones to make the cabs??
Like do you ever find POSH Amethyst??

Those are neat Bob, thanks! I'll have to figure something else out based on that - I have no way (that I know of anyway) to lathe cups. I'm wondering if I could find an epoxy that's hard if I could mold something like that? That idea popped into my head when I was thinking of the pitch laps used for grinding lenses dunno28

Krystee - nice! I love your videos - hope you do more! You're especially good at getting to the point and not yammering on about everything else in the world like some how-to vids do (geez those are annoying!).

FWIW Carol, when I was doing girdles I used to make girdle lines by stacking up a few aluminum templates (anything flat hard and thin you can stack will do) then placing my aluminum or brass scribe atop the stack and holding it firm, then I would gently run my preform in circles next to it so that the scribe would make a line on them. Perfect lines every time.

Re Bob's lathed cups - I wonder if they're available for sale on the web??
Re Krystee's Videos - TOTALLY AGREE!!!  Straightforward!!!

Re the Girdle Line, I've just used a thin black magic marker and found that the chubby body of the marker was the right size to just lay on the tabletop and move the shaped preform up to it to mark the girdle height.  That part seemed to work OK for me.
When I was taught, my guru did 'multiple angled sections' however, but the first one was no where near a steep as Krystees.  He went up a bit with progressively steep angles.  Each progressive step had a new marker line for the edge of that step. [tedious as hell though]  bricks21

That's why I'm wondering how to get rid of the large flat top.  How many angled steps are there before you get to the 'blending of angles' sanding stages??

Bob,

Your little cups remind me of the little cups they sell as an accessory attachment for the Graves Cab Mate for small shperes/marbles. yes16  I've never seen them in person but always thought that they would be a cool thing to try.  It never occurred to me to use them to make perfectly domed rounds!!!  Have you seen those before?  Do you think they would be similar to what you have made?

Carol,

As far as what I do next depends on whether I am doing high domes or low domes.  For high domes....  I start at the upper mark at the top portion of the cab where the angle meets the flat spot.  I slowly turn the cab in circles staying on the line, working my way towards the very center of the stone until the flat spot is virtually eliminated, I do this slowly and once I get one complete circle turned then just slightly change the angle a bit more to keep making the flat spot smaller smaller until I get to the center.  Then I color the cab and move on to the sanding disks using my circular technique to smooth out and sand the cab.  For low domes, I will stay on the 180 and start my circular technique right from where I left off in the video.  I will start at the highest angle and as I am doing constant little circles I will slowly keep rotating the cab in a circle as well and make my way to the center of the cab until the flat spot is virtually eliminated.  Then I will color the cab and move on to the sanding disks.  Most of my time cabbing is spent doing the initial shape on the 180.  All the rest of the steps are just sanding and blending it all together.

Lately I have been playing with my expando and diamond belts.  I've found that the technique I use on wheels is completely different than how I cab on a flat lap once I get the initial shape formed out.  On the wheels I do not use any type of circle technique, instead I use an up and down motion with my wrists as I slowly turn the cab in a circle.  I've even been going back and forth between the machines lately as I am finding some things are faster and more precision on the lap whereas sanding is much faster on the wheels.   Everything I do is constantly evolving as I continually learn new techniques!!!

Hi Krystee,

I'm not usually this 'slow on the uptake' but .......ya lost me in the 'land of circles'..[smile]
I've seen your 'circle technique video' which is used once the shape is basically formed and used with the colored sanding discs.  That part is clear to me.

I really love the high domes but can't seem to get the shaping technique into my brain. 
When you say " I slowly turn the cab in circles staying on the line"......Are these 'in circles' you refer to, following the line in a long circle around the cab, or staying in one spot tiny circles, like your circle technique??  When you do the 'circles' do you keep the cab oriented in one direction and just 'massage the circle' or do you rotate the cab around in a single spot like with the circle technique.  [DUH!!!]  dunno28

Any chance for a 'quickie video' just to continue where the earlier one ended with the shaping after the first strong angle?????   

Staying on the line in the same direction.... something like this:

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thudrumble.com%2Fq_images%2Finv%2Fl%2Fsk_tripmat_d3_swirl.jpg&hash=398e4b95df9029603be265d4162b35f2)

I will see if there is some way to video it.  I will be out in the shop cabbing later this afternoon.  I will have to find something I can dop though so that I can do it one handed while video taping.

Great....take your camera or cellphone [giggle]

That diagram is exactly how I feel [more giggles]

Krystee I have just recently tried to duplicate your circular technique on a sic wheel 1 1/2 inch wide and have had some good results, It's kind of like patting your head and rubbing your stomach if you have used the traditional style of up and down, back and forth while rotating the stone. It gets kinda comical sometimes trying to stay on track a 3" diamond wheel would definitely make it easyier

LOL Kenny!!!!

Carol,

Ok, here's another short video.  I had one little "oopsie" moment during filming but....  that's ok.  You get to see how I catch a cab too!  lol15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mECyxv4clt0&feature=youtu.be

Excellent thread keep the replies and videos coming. To my knowledge, Krystee, tips are the only videos on you tube on an Ameritool worth watching. There may be more but I haven't found them. The cups are also very informative. Would like to know the answer to Krystees question 're Graves cups and of they well work on an Ameritool?

Three Cheers for Krystee!!!!
The New Ameritool Video Queen!!!

Yes, that TOTALLY helped, Krystee. You're a doll!!!
yes16
"I do believe I've got it" !!! yippie24

Also, nice catch on that cab.  (giggle)
I've started dopping with Gorilla Glue on large head nails and so my need to 'hang onto the little suckers' is solved.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking all that time out of your schedule to 'hear my plea'.
Huge E-hug!! tonythetiger

I think I vaguely remember something about the Graves cups but I never saw any of them that I can recall. I have a great memory so I would have remembered them(he he).  I have such a great memory that I can't even remember the last time I forgot something!!
Bob 

HAHAHA!!!!!!  roar29

I have a set of these.  They're called Star Cups and you can locate them in Graves' pdf catalog download.  The unit fits any 1/2" - 20 right hand, threaded spindle. It's supplied with the cup holder and three copper cups which can be charged with diamond compound.  Replacement cups made of either copper or lead are available.  The cup "dimple" measures 3/4-inch in diameter.

Rick 

Bob...  chuckle02

Excellent video Krystee! I hadn't thought of using pencil or marker on the hard discs - I'm going to give that a shot. I tend to go off symmetry so that should really help me a lot. You totally rock! yes16

I've always wondered about cabochon profiles that have a straight 90° angle.
The issue is the bezel would have to extend all the way over the top of the stone to hold it. So it seems to me that the cab needs to flair out at least a little bit towards the bottom. Here are some photos:

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zbestvalue.com%2Fimages3%2Fcab-FB-7D-50H-500-jj.jpg&hash=7c3b02c7aeddb1094e024cf17d679431)

This is the shape I usually use. It allows a jeweler to use a very low profile bezel to set the gem. Note that usually the cab comes out with a slightly curved bevel and not flat like the diagram.

And here is a recent cabochon I just put up on eBay:

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zbestvalue.com%2Fimages17%2FIMG_9146.jpg&hash=c721befff8f82a9637396146cc370dcd)
Vistaite Picture Jasper

And here is the side  view:

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zbestvalue.com%2Fimages17%2Fvistaite-closeup2.jpg&hash=e45bff4435decd506af3d1df5e172e0b)

I have a few more cabochon side view profile diagrams here on my website:

http://www.finegemdesigns.com/cabochonprofiles.htm

I would be very interested in finding out what most jewelers on here prefer as far as shape and side profile.

I usually like to work with slabs that are about 5mm thick. After cutting you end up with a 4mm high cab which is easy to work with and not excessively heavy. Of course you can cut higher dome cabs depending on the material and translucency.

After I dop and do the basic shape I then cut the 7° taper for the side profile. Then finish by rounding everything so the dome is symmetrical.

The side photo above shows the result. Note: I also recommend an epoxy and metal dop method vs. using wax. I'm not sure if I posted my method yet but can do so again if anyone wants to see it.

Your diagram is the same way that I do my cabs although the girdle line isn't always at 50% of cab height.  I keep my bezel angle around 80% and I have been told repeatedly by jewelers that have set my stones that the evenly angled bezel cuts their setting time in 1/2.  Another thing I have been told repeatedly is that a completely flat bottom is also extremely important as it eliminates "wobble" during the setting process. 

Here is a good example of your diagram except my dome is slightly higher than 50%.

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi671.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv74%2Fkgniot0709%2F2013%2FP1070283_zpsde289422.jpg&hash=952ee22fd02c5ab68d894472eb120960) (http://s671.photobucket.com/user/kgniot0709/media/2013/P1070283_zpsde289422.jpg.html)

Good photo. It appears the cab flairs out ever so slightly at the bottom? If not I would think a bezel would have to extend at least 2/3 of the way up the side to hold the stone.

And when you say an even profile you mean that the angle of the side should be the same all the way around the perimeter correct?

Yes, it is angled for a low setting.  And yes, exactly even all the way around the perimeter.  It makes for a perfectly smooth and even setting.  I was told that if the angle is not even all the way around the cab then the jeweler has to take extra steps to smooth the setting around the cab.  I don't think it matters if it's 7%, 10% etcetera as long as it is evenly angled and NOT a straight 90 degree edge to the dome.

Here is what one jeweler told me:

"Your 80 edges on this stone are extremely impressive to work with. I have some many cabs from different people and they are always different. I typically find stones with girdles that are shallow on one side or two sides and they make a lot more work to get make them look correct.
This stone is pretty large but because of this nice even girdle I was able to reduce the bezel height about half enabling the stone to show itself off more, very nice!"

I wish I could post his pictures of the settings but I believe it would be copyright infringement.

Yes makes it easier for the jeweler. I'm surprised at how many "elite" cabbers on the internet are using 90° sides on their cabs.

And yet they are still selling lots of stones.

Maybe the 90° profile works better for wire wrappers?

Sample 90° profile:

(https://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.finegemdesigns.com%2Fimages%2Fcab-FB-0D-50H-500-ff.jpg&hash=95e22ac17d3c3c125a3ce44791df2696)

Yes that's totally right Krystee,

Re my own preferences, for girdles,  This is important -  I prefer that a girdle be the [b]same angle and the height all the way around the stone[/b].  If it's high on one side and low on the other then the bezel looks like a weird roller coaster with the girdle going in and out of the metal, or if the metal follows the wave, it looks even weirder, and when you bend it over and it REALLY shows up.  I don't care if it's 88 deg or 75 deg as long as it's the same height and slope all the way around the stone.

My preference is not for 90 deg because you need to push the bezel over the stone, and if the stone is as wide at the top of the girdle as it is at the bottom [ie, 90 deg] you have to run the bezel HIGHER than the girdle to have somewhere to push it and then you end up with puckers and a weird bend.  Anything less than 90 deg [even 88 deg] is good, but consistent.

Also, my Lapidary guru, Boris, says that the flat back must be flat, but should have a small beveled edge not a sharp corner between the back and the girdle, because if there's any small amount of solder bump or anything inside the setting, when you roll over the bezel, you could crack some stones.

Another thing my guru's a bug about is the consistency of the curve across the dome.  I showed him some cabs I had bought and he pointed out the flaws which were bowed out back surfaces, and he'd hold the cab sideways and look across the dome, and if the arc radius on the left was way different from the one on the right, that was 'not correct'. He teaches "Competition Calibrated Cabs".  I don't know about freeform cabs....there may be more leeway in those shapes, but this is what he told me.

I have seen this addressed here before and I think that 100% of the smithies and casters are in agreement about the angle of the girdle needing to be at an angle, but there is a whole bunch of other craftsmen out there that want a vertical girdle, the wire wrappers so you need to try and do that for them, I just cut but I try to know what the artist is going to use the stone for and adapt from there. Persoally I think some wire wrappers are so good that if they incorporated a little solder here and there with their designs would arguably be smiths IMHO.

I'm curious, I've done a bit of wire wrapping and have come to the conclusion that wire wrapping does not bring out my artistic side the way finding pictures in stone does so, I stopped and decided to sit back and admire the artisans that excel in it!  The question I have though is, do experienced wire wrappers like a large girdle or a 90 degree girdle?  When I wrapped I found that thin girdles allowed me to use less wire because I could do 3 wires around the perimeter versus 5+.  BUT..... I was attempting simple wraps and was very happy that when I messed up, I wasn't throwing tons of silver in the scrap pile.  Do wire wrappers need the extra width so that they can use more wire for their weaves, etc...????

As far as my cabs though, they all have an angled bezel regardless as to whether they are being sold to a smither or a wire wrapper.  My best customer though is a wire wrapper and she orders from me every month.  I'm wondering if the fact that I do higher domes negates the need for a large girdle?

I think you maybe seeing it the way I do Krystee there are probably 100 wrappers for every smith out there some good some bad but they all need medium to work with and as cutters we can make their work easier and move more of our art.

I'm not clear on your meaning here Krystee.  By "large girdle" do you mean something like a 75-degree girdle angle compared to a straight up-and-down 90-degrees?  I'm curious about specific wire-wrappers' needs also.

Rick 

I was just being hypothetical.  I've never had a wire wrapper ask for specific angles or girdle height before, just shapes.  But.... when looking through various wire wrapping books and seeing some artists work I notice that they might have 5 or more wires going around the perimeter of the stone and the work gets very intricate.  When seeing those pieces I always wonder what the cab looked like before they started their design piece?

I think Donnie would be a good person to ask because she is now teaching wire wrapping classes!  yes16

Hi Rick,
When Krystee says 'large girdle' I think she means the HEIGHT of the girdle [like 3mm or 4mm or 5mm, not the SLOPE of the angle....but I could be wrong.

Krystee....is that correct??

Yes!!!!  Sorry to confuse  bricks21

I did ask this question in another forum and the reply was that it depends on the wire gauge as to how many wires they will use but as a rule of thumb he said vertical and the width of 2 - 20 gauge wires. Wrappers seem to be pretty flexible as are metal smiths they can make most things work but they probably grumble and cuss the cabber for not knowing what is needed lol.

Wow really that percent? I don't finish backs (but offer to polish at no extra charge) so that the gem works better in a bezel setting. But I imagine wire wrappers always want backs polished.

Hi all,

This is a really good conversation.  I'm a wirewrapper and I like girdles that are straight up and down and
usually but not always a two mm.  However, since I also cab, it depends on where
I want the stone to go and what I feel it needs.  There are a few that have been
quite a bit thicker because that's where I feel it needed to go.

Krystee, I truly look forward to seeing your cabs.  They are always beautiful.
Especially the obsidians.

Deb  hatsoff14   saved17

go to etsy and look up wire wrapped jewelry 61k items, silver smithed jewelry 1500 pieces. Just about every Craft store has wire wrapping lessons some several times a year. As far as polished backs I'm sure they would prefer them in certain instances probably most of the time, there are those that would probably like the grooved cabs, cabs drilled for bead like things and it goes on and on there is a huge market out there presently being cornered by the Chinese bead factories and low cost low quality mass produced cabochons. just saying. This is kinda hijacking this thread so I'll quit now

No please keep going. I had no idea the wire wrap people were so plentiful. The more information the better. On the 90° angle domes do they prefer a rounded top edge or sharper?

Well I'm not a wire wrapper but maybe those here that are can tell us what they want in cab construction.