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Stabilizing wood, bone, and horn

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Author Topic: Stabilizing wood, bone, and horn  (Read 3029 times)
MrsWTownsend
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« on: February 06, 2012, 12:08:06 pm »

We have had discussions in the past about vacuum stabilizers and pressurization and someone on a Facebook page I follow posted this video so I though I would share it:

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Bentiron
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2012, 12:18:33 pm »

That's a pretty simple set up to draw a vacuum on a small piece of wood or bone. Thanks for posting it.
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pete
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 02:17:11 pm »

Great idea with a lot more applications possible. Thanks again for posting
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hulagrub
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2012, 02:22:03 pm »

Wonderful idea!!!! I had been thinking of a mason jar and a small shop vac, but was worried about implosions and the ability to keep a vacuum.
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2012, 03:08:38 pm »

Thank you!  What a wonderfully simple idea!
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 03:15:25 pm »

This is wonderfully simple:)
This guy does really nice file work and makes some beautiful knives.
Thank you Gina:)
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Rocksnot
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2012, 12:12:16 pm »

WOW!  never would have thunk  bricks
I have a couple cans of that wood hardener, works great on wood in window sills and such that is getting rotten but I never thought about using it in lapidary... 
Silly me  :P

thanks for sharing!

On a side note:  look at his hands!  LOL  somebody has 'workin hands'.  (wifey would make me wash, and wash and wash...  hehe)
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, 12:50:27 pm »

Killer post Gina, thank you. yes yes
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, 02:47:33 pm »

It looks like a simple way to stabilize some things, however I definitely wouldn't do it as it is shown. It poses a significant safety concern. These jars are designed to withstand some vacuum levels established with food preparation (ever notice how the lid "pops" when it is loosened?). This indicates that it is relieving the vacuum created when the canning process is done. The food is heated to can and sterilize the contents. The lid is applied when it is still hot and as it cools a vacuum occurs. This is what causes the "pop". These jars aren't designed nor tested to any standard for pressurization, thus they shouldn't be pressurized as you hold them in your hand and look at the contents! They could easily shatter and spew broken bits of glass and the liquid contents at your eyes and body. If you wanted to do the process in a safer, but not nessecarily the safest manner, the jar should be placed behind a substantial barrier or inside some kind of strong container  with the hoses leading to a safe place where you could pressurize it. After the process, bleed off the pressure before retrieving and observing it!
Just my thoughts.
Bob
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2012, 04:58:36 pm »

Yeah, your right Bob. Your everyday jar is not made to the standards of a bell jar so we need to be careful here. I like your idea of using another barrier between me and the jar. I think if I used this I'd put it in my sand blaster cabinet.
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pete
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, 05:35:35 pm »

As I understand the video it was about creating a vacuum not pressurising a jar. Pressure explodes, vacuum implodes.
Pressurising the jar to the extent of it exploding before the metal lid gives way or the connection between two, in my opinion would be substantial pressure and beyond the means of a hand device like a bicycle pump or its equivalent in this case.
The brake bleeding device used on the video is a hand operated vacuum pump and is unlikely to create the sort of black hole forces that would suck your hair and furniture into it.
The amount of vacuum needed is only enough to bleed off the air inside the porous object, as can be observed by the piece of wood bubbling on the video. I would suggest the seals and conncetion are more likely to give way before major implosion of the glass jar unless of course someone is foolish enough to use a cracked jar.
You should remember that a jar shape is inherently strong and in this vacuum case all the forces are being concentrated toward the small hole in the lid.
If there are any weak points in the setup it will be air leaking into the device causing the vacuum not to work, not a catastrophic implosion.
I think if people don't understand what is happening with the device then better not to play with it in the first place.
A naked flame poses a far greater 'significant safety concern'!
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, 07:56:24 pm »

...
unlikely to create the sort of black hole forces that would suck your hair and furniture into it.
...

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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2012, 03:42:42 pm »

Twenty-three inches of mercury is a pretty substantial vacuum and having been around when vacuum tubes in TVs were all the rage and seen what can happen when the end gets knocked off the end of CRT glass can and does tend to fly even in an implosion, so yes some safety precautions would be justified. There is no need to denigrate us for wanting to be safe.
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pete
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2012, 08:22:36 pm »

With respect Benitron, there's no comparison between the vacuum of a CRT and the hand held device used for sucking air from the brake lines. 23" of mercury (is that 'absolute' or 'guage'? big difference) is no where near the 10 to the power of minus 9 atm need for a CRT. I too have been around CRT's my whole life and still am; in fact my father invented the worlds largest air-cooled vacuum tube!
The 23" mercury would be around 20% vacuum compared to a CRT at better than 99%. The suggestion is IMHO alarmist.

To quote

"Low vacuum: 1 atm (760 Torr) to 100 Torr. This is something you may have dealt with - the suction of a vacuum cleaner, spark advance manifold on your automobile, a siphon, and so forth. None of these is anywhere near the bottom end of this range - all are probably better than .5 atm and usually much closer to 1 atm. All except the smallest incandescent light bulbs are filled with inert gas at a fraction of an atm as well. A low vacuum can be obtained by any number of simple mechanical means including fans and centrifugal blowers, piston and rotary pumps, aspirators, siphons, chemical combustion and other reactions (which use up the air), etc. Liquids boil at reduced temperature - often room temperature - in a modest vacuum but minimal or no precautions are needed to prepare surfaces and equipment since any outgassing is small compared to the remaining air.

Medium vacuum: 100 to .1 Torr. This is the range where most of the gas lasers operate. In addition, neon signs, fluorescent lamps, and other glow discharge tubes, distillation pumps, vacuum packing, and so forth require medium vacuums. A medium vacuum can be achieved with a high quaility mechanical pump.

High vacuum: .1 to 1E-6 Torr. Crooks radiometer (that thing with the black and silver vanes that spins in Sunlight), small light bulbs, thermos bottles, cold cathode (gas type) X-ray and Crooks tubes, mass spectrometers, etc. At the bottom end of this range true vacuum electronics technology becomes possible including: vacuum fluorescent display tubes, CRTs, modern hot cathode X-ray tubes; smaller particle accelerators like cyclotrons and betatrons; scanning and transmission electron microscopes. "
Ref http://www.angelfire.com/nj3/soundweapon/vacuum.htm
 
The hand held brake bleeder is not a 'high quality pump' capable of producing even a medium vacuum. It is clearly a low vacuum device with about as much precaution needed as using a bicycle pump.


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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 12:56:25 pm »

OK, I'll still defer to the side of safety, thank you for the additional information. yes
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