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Spiderweb Jasper?????

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Author Topic: Spiderweb Jasper?????  (Read 2412 times)
Billy Bob
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« on: February 20, 2010, 11:08:35 am »

The material was described as Spiderweb Jasper from Oregon.  It does not cut like jasper, more like a opalite of some kind.  Any ideas? Anyone familiar with Oregon Spiderweb jasper? 

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mirkaba
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 11:21:38 am »

Hi Phil, It looks a little like my local Rhyolite. I am cutting a piece of the spiderweb variety for the competition and will probably post the photos a little later today. Overall it is softer than Jasper but the hardness varies with the amount of silica in the rock. It appears that the piece that I am cutting is softer than the rock you have. It will not take nearly the shine but is more of a satin finish. The more silica ....the harder the rock and better the finish...........Bob
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Taogem
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2010, 11:22:03 am »

It is not what I traditionally think of as a Spider type Jasper, but does not mean that it's not..

Great looking material and nice cab too !
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Freeform
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 01:01:10 pm »

Actually, that is the traditional Spider web jasper. Known actually as Pegratite.  From the Oregon/Idaho border.  I met Phil Pegra the first year I started selling at Quartzsite in 2000. His Dad was the finder back in the early 60's, and though he said itís really called Pegratite. Spider Web is the trade name.  I will post a pic tonight when I get home on a couple I got. Real nice stuff, the old stock is better because the line definition is really nice. And its allot more stable and solid than the newly mined material for sale on the market.
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rocknut
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 06:30:34 pm »

What ever it is, it is great.
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Mark
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2010, 06:40:10 pm »

Shain is correct, its Spiderweb Jasper from OR.  And believe it or not, there are several stones out there that people refer to as Spiderweb Jasper, but this would be the traditional one.  There is also Spiderman Jasper which is black with red veining throughout.

Mark
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 11:58:34 pm »

Just to share.....

Here is a Spider Web type Jasper that I really liked a lot.. Wish I could have got more of it.. 



Then the Spiderman Jasper that Mark mentioned.. Pebblepup shared these..



Also some Imperial Spider Jasper that Rod shared a while back.





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Freeform
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2010, 07:53:23 pm »

Here an older slab of Pegratite. Notice itís basically little thunder eggs.  And just to spark debate. George, what you are showing examples of is really basically Brecciate Jasper. The "spiderweb" pattern that can be noted in several materials I believe spans more from a brecciate pattern. Than a thunder egg pattern, but would we consider these little thunder eggs brecciate too? As the egg pattern is formed that way from the beginning, and the brecciate from what I understand, the pattern is produced in stages.

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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 10:17:13 am »

I've always thought that Rainforest Jasper windows were similar to the Spiderweb Jasper thundereggs as they seem to break open in a similar way (from drying out possibly ?).  I know Rainforest Jasper is a Rhyolite and per Shain, Spiderweb Jasper is a Pegratite (never heard of that one before). 

Mark
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Freeform
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 03:39:31 pm »

Ya, I would agree Mark. Itís a surname (trade name) in both cases. "Pegra" was the last name of the original miner who discovered it in the 60's.  His son Phil told me the same thing, spiderweb jasper. One of those cases were one gotta try and live on long after they are gone I suspect.

I actually believe itís a type of Rhyolite pattern, similar to any orbicular jasper actually.  And if we were to really get into classification, The Spider web that Billy Bob and I have show would be in that group, as would Ocean Jasper and most of the poppy Jasper we have seen.

Georgeís examples would fall into the Brecciate jasper class in my opinion.  Two different groups, same surname use.

Now here is an example I find here in the Goldfield near my home, about 3 miles away. Iíve been on the search for a real hard jasper type, and the last time I went out weeks ago, found a good lead. But most of it tends to be true Rhyolite Orbs, and they in time would produce the similar pattern are pegratite, maybe not the coloration. A brecciate with an organized look.
The white areas are hard agate silica. The tan/beige areas are a softer, almost glass like, and smashed up orbs. The photo doesnít show the detail, but in person those tan areas are really neat, almost chatoyant.  Which is what can happen to certain Rhyolites.  As I often find intermixed hard green Obsidian like mixtures in these same flows were I find the hard rhyolite.


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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2010, 06:48:16 pm »

NIce rocks Shain. How many years would your personal stock last if you cut non-stop? LOL  I am envious:)
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Freeform
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 06:59:52 pm »

I still have enough rough to last a life time of slabbing and cabbing.  And I sold most of it off last year. Looking at about 12 tons in the overstock pile still. That does not include my actual personal stock.  What is the funniest I find is because most of it dates back to the late 70's and early 80's when it was collected and poised in Marcos Rockshop in Boise. I often find materials like this Pegratite that went extinct, then either a new deposit was found, or someone spent the time and money to reclamation the old mine and produce the material again.  So, I often find myself in this situation were I use old examples to denote, new materials.  I actually run across that Spiderman jasper in my overstocks often, but honestly never liked it. Dates back to the same time period or older. But I remember it coming up several years ago as a "new" find. Ha.  Obtaining this collection back in the 90's help also reduce my hauls in the field and became really selective when rockhounding. Its also why i often dont go on trips to group rocking becasue i can often find the older, better examples in my backyard.  If you visit my about me page on my website there is a slice of the overstocks there.
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2010, 05:25:23 am »

Shain, do you have a backyard or is it all rock piles?  Cuts down on cutting the grass.  I remember as a teen in Indiana, we lived on a lake but didn't really have any rocks.  We borrowed a couple ton truck with a winch and went to the strip mines and hauled back boulders for landscaping.  The first boulder we tried to winch up, almost flipped the truck as we kept winching and it didn't budge, instead the truck kept tipping closer and closer to the rock until we saw what we were doing.  The tire was off the ground on the other side.  Guess we overestimated the weight of that one.  After i dropped them off in the yard, i had to tumble them myself all over the yard to move them, as i could hardly raise an end off the ground, let alone pick them up.  Dumb kid, but i loved landscaping at the time.

It interesting what Shain said about all the old stock that has gone forgotten or dug out, and then someone re-finds it or finds a new site.  I remember spiderman jasper being a new thing a few years back.  I know some other dealers that have been collecting since the 70s or even their parents collected before them and they inherited all the old stones.  They see the same thing.  I really love when old stock that hasn't been seen in years, comes up for sale or auction.  I am so envious when someone buys out an estate and there are like 100 barrels stuffed with who knows what and they uncover all this gem stuff that has been wrapped with newspaper from the 60s.  So cool.  Speaking of newspaper.  When we ripped up the linoleum flooring in our house to put down carpeting, we found newspapers from the 30s to 40s.  I found front page articles where they declared that France surrendered to Hitler and the Nazis.  They used to put down sheets of newspaper under the flooring to dampen sound (I think).  We found so many interesting things like full page ads for dresses and old cars.  It was like a museum.  Really interesting reading the local articles of the time and the national ones like World War II.

I was thinking that some of the lined stone, mostly Jasper like Imperail and Spiderman, is not Breciated at all.  I think of Brecciasted as when a stone breaks like from an Earthquakes in CA.  Agate, Jasper, or some other material then fills in the cracks and re-cements the fragments into a whole stone again.   That's brecciation.  On the other hand, you have a stone that is porous or has tubes in it.  Then something seeps into it and  it hardens and you get these lined patterns.  But the stone was never broken into fragments and re-cemented.  What do you all think?  I just slabbed some Chrysocolla and got slabs that are mostly black matrix with Light Blue Chrysocolla veining throughout.  I am pretty sure that this stuff was never broken and re-cemented back together.  So i don't think of all veined or lined stone, as brecciated.  Stone Canyon Jasper, Chapenite, Stefoinite, etc., are brecciated, but I don't think that Spiderman, lined Imperial Jasper, etc., are brecciated.  Please correct me if i am wrrr, wrrrnng, wwrrrrrrnnnngg, err, mistaken.

Mark
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2010, 06:29:34 am »

Personally Mark, I think you are right, though it is a somewhat arbitrary distinction so I could see it going either way. I think of brecciated as having been broken up AND shuffled around. Most of the Types you mentioned are just fractured rocks that have had the fractures healed by later deposits. No Shuffling (or very little).
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2010, 12:14:29 pm »

That was the first thing that crossed my mind when brecciated came up as being spider effect related.

I would agree Mark.. Not absolutely sure I see the connection between a breccaited and the Oregon Spider Jasper, or even the few other different examples posted.

The one Jasper agreed to be the true Spider Jasper from Oregon does not seem breacciated to me either. But then like Shain asked.. Are the little egg patterns even breccaited ? Are these little egg shaped agatized areas healed somewhat similar to the way a breacciated fracture becomes filled and agatized?

Are the actual spider patterns just something created over time in stages as Shain suggests ?

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