Soldering a sterling silver jump ring to a Bezel setting

[HeatherTerpeny]

Hi everyone, this is my first post.  I think I need a little help.  I have been making fairly simple bezel settings for a while now, and I always add the same (chunky) bail made of 24g silver.  Recently my jewerly designs have taken me in another direction.  I need to solder a sterling silver jump ring to the sides of muliple bezels so that I can attach them together.  The problem I am having is that after my easy solder "flashes" and I pick my piece up off my charcoal block, the jump ring is stll not attached.  Instead I have a lump of solder left over on the bezel (or sometimes the solder dissapears entirely, and I am not sure where it goes).  I've tried multiple times, and I even sanded a flat spot on the jump ring, so it would lie directly against the bezel setting and have a greater surface area.  I know that solder will not fill gaps, and from the naked eye it appears I do not have gaps between the ring and the bezel.  At one point, I did get the ring to attach just as the solder flashed, but it adheared very crooked, dispite my efforts to use a pick and plyers to hold them in place.  If anyone has any advice I'd be forever grateful.  I now have a ton of bezel settings with nothing to connect them together, lol.

Thanks in advance!

[Raqy]

Hi and welcome to the board,
Have you tried using a third hand.  It has a long tweezer and holds the bail or whatever you need soldered at just the right angle so you can get the flame only on what you need and there's no movement. it would seem that for some reason the two surfaces aren't touching.
Hope this helps...

heres a picture of one..

http://store.sra-solder.com/shopimages/products/thumbnails/thirdhand.jpg

[HeatherTerpeny]

hi there, and thanks for repling.  I have a poor-mans version of a third hand set up and tried that as well.  It seems that even with the third hand when I heat up the surfaces, either the jump ring falls or tips over, or my solder jumps and then I have to adjust it.  It seems as the flux heats up and bubbles nothing lays right, or it looks like its perfect till I pick it up and the two pieces fall apart from each other.

[Raqy]

Maybe sanding your surfaces with a lil sandpaper to make sure there's no oils from your hands.  I'm no pro and I'm sure someone else will chime in soon here..  :-\

[Bluesssman]

I find in some of the delicate soldering places that liquid solder works great.  Just a thought.

And welcome to the board...


Gary

[Taogem]

Seems odd... If the solder actually flashes then not sure what to tell you as to why it would not be sticking.. Just a guess, but I do continue to move the heat around the piece for just a few seconds even after the solder flashes..

If you can not see the solder as in it seems to disappear, maybe ....... just maybe not using quite enough?? Seems unlikely, but hey.... it's a guess..

I would try Raqy's idea of lightly sanding the surfaces too...

Are you using flux as well..

What type of solder have you been using ? I have enjoyed using the paste solder.. A bit pricey. I have a sheet of solder and am determined to keep giving it a try.. I have had the exact same problem as you in regards to the bail not soldering in position properly.. That just sucks and a mess to try and re-do..

[HeatherTerpeny]

Thanks everyone! you guys are great!
I am using flux "handy flux" I think its called.  I did try sanding both pieces, I thought for sure that would work, but again no stick.  I am currently using sheet solder, which I cut into little pieces and stick right above where the loop touches, I also tried to place it in between both the ring and the bezel, which also didn't work.  Does anyone have any brands of paste solder they like the best?  Will the paste keep the jump ring in place, like a glue, or will the flux still "jump" or move towards the heat and stuff?

[Taogem]

I use the same flux.. The paste solder I use is from Rio Grande.. Stock number 103099

Yes, it moves towards the heat and things like bails will shift a bit the same as if using chip solder..

Can't place solder between the two desired soldered pieces though... Don't think that is a good one..

It does not act in a way that it will help hold anything in place prior to soldering .. I still use the helping hands unit for holding bails in place.

[thewrightthings]

Heather, a few ideas.  Make sure you also dip the solder into the flux.  Heat both the jumpring and the bezel both. Also, make certain you heat the entire area, not just the area to be soldered.  The unheated area will act as a heat sink and pull heat away from where you want to solder.  Remember, solder flows to the hottest areas and if one is not hot enough it will not flow there.  Also, after it flows, let it sit for a few seconds to assure it sets.
Be sure both areas are clean of fire scale and oxidation before applying flux.
   Let me know if that works.
              Paula

[bobby1]

Looks like you aren't getting the jump ring hot enough for the solder to "jump" to it also. Does your solder have a physical contact with the jump ring? If it isn't touching the jump ring when the other metal gets to the melting point of the  solder it will flow and flatten to the larger metal piece. I always use sheet solder (medium for most all of my applications) cut into small squares (pallions) and place it between the jump ring and the larger piece. I also use the white paste flux for all of my soldering applications. After applying the flux (usually a small drip off the tip of the flux brush) I heat the pieces slowly and let the fluids boil off and wait for the pieces stop dancing around. I reposition the pieces with my titanium solder pick if it is necessary and continue heating,  always ensuring that all the pieces come up to soldering temperature simultaneously.
I rarely flatten the jump ring or take any special cleaning steps before soldering.
Bob

[Auntie Rocks]

Try all of what everybody else recommended. I think that if you still have problems, pickle both the bezel and the ring, rinse and try it again without touching the surfaces to be soldered.

[HeatherTerpeny]

Thanks for all the good advice,

I have sucessfully soldered 4 jump rings to two bezel settings in the past hour or so.  To be honest they don't look that great, I think I'm going to need a bit of sanding to make these look good.  I think the fix to the problem was a combination of multiple ideas suggested by everyone.  I used my little pallions of easy solder, (is there a difference in strength of the hold bewteen meduim and easy solder?) I fluxed the actual solder pallions as I placed them (which I had not thought to do previously).  I then placed my jump rings, one at a time in my poor-mans third hand.  I also got a second heat block (not charcoal just a regular heat obsorbing block its a bit heavier than the charcoal block and pushed it against the bezel setting so there was a little bit of pressure, that way as my solder jumped I still had a free hand to move it back into place, and I was very careful to heat both the ring and the bezel wall evenly.  Another pointer that someone mentioned which I think REALLY helped, was to leave it to cool on the block for a minute, so it can set.  I noticed specifically on two of them that I needed to flip the piece and solder from the back of the bezel, almost like the solder didn't travel the full lenght of the jump ring, I fully beleive that because I waited to pick the piece up till it had set, the ring didn't fall right off like before, even though it still needed a little more solder, which was clear from just looking at the connection. At that point, it was easy to just carefully flux and rinse the piece, then flip it over to solder from the back side, which then proved to give me a strong hold.  I think this may be a learning experience, which practice plays a large role.  Thanks again to everyone for their help!

[Taogem]

I always use sheet solder (medium for most all of my applications) cut into small squares (pallions) and place it between the jump ring and the larger piece.

I will have to try this.. I thought that the two metals had to be touching and then place the solder on top of that joint..

Glad you mentioned this..

[bobby1]

I always  do my soldering from the back when I am attaching various elements together or when I attach the bail. It hides any ugly globs of excessive solder.
One of the problems you are probably having is the third hand. If you are gripping the jump ring in on of the clamps, the clamp is acting as a heat sink and drawing the heat from the torch away from the jump ring; consequently, the jump ring can't get up to heat for the solder to attach to it. Third hands do this routinely and that's why I never use one.  I position the parts that I want to solder together with pieces and clumps of boiler refractory material. If anyone is interested in seeing how I do it I will post pictures.
Bob

[Taogem]

I position the parts that I want to solder together with pieces and clumps of boiler refractory material. If anyone is interested in seeing how I do it I will post pictures.
Bob

Something new !

Yes, I would like very much to see what boiler refractory material is and how you use it ..  :)