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How to decide on applying epoxies/super glue or opticon as a possible option

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Author Topic: How to decide on applying epoxies/super glue or opticon as a possible option  (Read 15850 times)
Alvin
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2010, 05:36:49 pm »

great info guys. I was wondering about the stuff.
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stonesthatrock
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2010, 09:16:57 am »

i thought there was another cab on here that showed how opitcon sealed the fracture on a cab, but i can't find it ... was i dreaming???
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Taogem
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2010, 01:54:15 pm »

Hmmmm..

I don't remember any others than what are shown.

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legendarygranite
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2010, 01:56:25 pm »

Before moving to Sun Valley, I worked in the granite fabrication of counter and small art projects. We used all kinds of epoxys. The epoxy that worked best for fractures was liquid flowing. You could add colors to the epoxy. IT worked like a charm. I must add we always apply it to practice piece to get the colors just right. Which some times took hours. We also heated the stones up for deap penetration also. We would also dam up around the fracture, use about a quarter inch to a half inch of flowing and heat the bottom of the stone which suck the liquid flowing into the crack. These where huge slabs.
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MrsWTownsend
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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2010, 10:07:09 pm »

Ok, so, this was going to be my entry for the cabochon contest but there is a problem.


This is the problem


I tried filling it with Opticon, which looked like crap and peeled off (I have yet to master the mix ratio for tiny amounts).  I tried filling it with super glue which also looked like crap and peeled off while trying to polish it smooth.

Is this just a crap cab or is there a way to save it?  It is so pretty...
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Taogem
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« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2010, 10:18:38 pm »

Hang it from your lamp that has the magnifying glass attached as a reminder to look for those pesky fractures prior to cabbing..  bricks

 
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MrsWTownsend
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« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2010, 10:21:32 pm »

So it is crap then...    I swear there wasn't a fracture there when I started it... 

Well, back to the grind stone then...
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catmandewe
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« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2010, 10:26:13 pm »

I like the shape if that is any consolation.

Tony
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Get free shipping and/or discounts on products at Cabking by using the following link.
http://cabking.com/ref/IdahoRockShop/
Michael S Hoover - Redrummd
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« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2010, 10:29:53 pm »

Those are really tough to seal.  If I were trying to fill it I would soak the piece in acetone to be certain there is no oil left in the partially healed line.  Let it dry under a shop light for a hour or two.

Mix and fill the line with Hxtal and let it sit for a week to cure.  Hxtal is water clear and UV stable so it will not yellow as it ages.  Since it takes days to set up and cure it will often (not always) soak down and fill these thin lines.  I use it on similar ones in Lapis Lazuli and it often soaks down all the way through a slab.  Try to keep it just on the fault line so air in the void can still migrate out of the stone.

I mix as little as four drops of Hxtal at a time.  I keep it in a refrigerator and a small bottle lasts about a year.

Okay, so what is HXTAL and why is it so great?

HXTAL Epoxy Adhesive is an ultra pure resin that remains water white (clear and totally transparent) over both time and with extreme exposure to direct light. This is an exotic and very high-tech adhesive that is far more sophisticated than hardware store epoxy adhesives or even Opticon.

HXTAL is supplied in two liquid parts, both of low viscosity. Hxtal epoxy should be weighed out accurately, (one part by weight of Part B plus three parts by weight of Part A). This assures the maximum utilization of all the adhesive purchased.

The creator of HXTAL confirms that the mix ratio is not an extremely critical factor in the quality of the final achieved glue properties but an average of 3:1 is recommended for maximum control of overall consistency.

After the two parts have been weighed into a mixing jar, mix it thoroughly with a glass stirring rod. There is no rush during the mixing stage and there will also be plenty of time for the glue to sit while the bubbles rise and pop. Freshly mixed HXTAL is very thin and this is the time to remove the bubbles from the mixture. The best way to do this is to use some kind of a vacuum to suck the air out of the glue.

Freshly mixed HXTAL has a very thin viscosity. If it is too thin, let it stand (covered) and it will thicken over a period of several hours. The bond strength of thick or thin HXTAL is the same but various gluing applications may require varied viscosities of the HXTAL. Thin HXTAL will penetrate cracks for some repair applications, making them virtually disappear from view. The best results are obtained when the glass is warmed to about 120F (a hair dryer or some other
heat source is reasonable if the object is not heated too much or too quickly). Then apply a drop of the freshly mixed HXTAL onto the crack. If the crack absorbs sufficient glue the crack will virtually disappear and the remaining HXTAL should be wiped off the surface only with a clean clothe or paper towel. Dont forget that the glue in the crack will still take a long time to cure so just let it sit for a week before continuing any other work on that piece.

HXTAL sets slowly - at 75F, it requires about one week to achieve most of the final bond strength, (see Physical Properties Sheet). However, ordinarily HXTAL is set sufficiently after 24 hours to hold the two parts together as long as no stress is applied to the glue joint. This is the best time to clean up if necessary. A single edge razor blade or an X-acto knife is a good tool to scrape off the excess resin. We dont recommend the use of any solvents to clean up at this stage
because the solvents can migrate into the glue joint and can weaken the bond with the glass. The damage may not be evident until much later and will appear to be small bubbles at the edge of the joint. After 24 hours it will be extremely difficult to remove any excess glue from the object and grinding and polishing will be the next best way to remove it.

Many glass artists use HXTAL epoxy adhesive to glue pieces of various glass together to form art.

 
 http://www.hisglassworks.com/cart/cart.php?m=product_list&c=57
 
 
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bobby1
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« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2010, 10:48:24 pm »

1. Clean the surface with denatured alcohol to remove any dirt or body oils.
2. Put the piece in a small hand formed cup shape of aluminum foil.
3. Place the piece on a heat resistant surface under a "gooseneck" lamp with a 100 watt bulb that is positioned as close to the piece as the bulb sheild will allow.
4. Let it heat like this for about 15 minutes to drive off any moisture. The piece should be hot to touch at this point. This step tends to open up the fractures enough for the Opticon to flow into them.
5. Lift the lamp and place a small amount of Opticon resin on the area with the fractures and position the lamp over the piece again for about 20 minutes.
6. Lift the lamp and drop a few drops of Opticon hardener in the Opticon resin. Stir carefully with a toothpick. Remove most of the Opticon but leave a small line over each fracture line.
7. Reposition the lamp over the piece. Let it stay there for 20 minutes.
8. Move lamp away from the piece and let it cool for 2 hours.
9. Gently file away the excess hardened Opticon. Be careful about removing much of the Opticon with a razor blade because it will lift the Opticon from the crevices of the fractures.
Hopefully this will work.
This is the basic method that I use to heal fractures. I find that it is critical to keep the piece hot after the Opticon resin has been heating on the cab and to quickly get the hardener mixed in and covering the fractures. The heating steps makes the cab expand and the fractures open up to allow the Opticon to penetrate deeply into the fractures. If the piece is allowed to cool with the Opticon resin on it the cab cools and contracts and the fractures close up and squeeze the Opticon back out before the hardener gets to mix with the resin in the fracture. If the Opticon hardens with the contracted fractures there is no way to reopen the fracture to get any new Opticon in it.
 I didn't confuse anyone did I??
Bob
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Michael S Hoover - Redrummd
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« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2010, 10:59:00 pm »

Kind of nice with bobby1 and I often giving our answers to the same question.  This really shows that there is often no one single answer and gives multiple points of view or options to consider. 
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MrsWTownsend
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« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2010, 11:03:51 pm »

My free form...  Trying to break out of the mold.  Apparently I broke too much...  It had a big old honkin' scratch in it that required some serious grinding action and after that is when I noticed the fracture.  DAD BURNIT!!!!!!!  I entertained the possibility of being able to polish it out but obviously that did not work.

I forgot to post my freaky scanner picture...



Hxtal...  Hmmm...  It is best to put the glue itself in the vacuum and de-bubble it before application or the stone with the glue on it or both?  I do have a gram scale (like the postal type) that I use for mixing gecko food and a vacuum table so that is totally do-able.  Thanks for that input, I'm going to look into getting some of that.  Do you recommend using this for stabilizing stone also?

So far Opticon has proven useless for me in each application I have attempted.  It is like, sort of tacky/oily and almost rubbery in texture.  I forgot to clean the stone before I applied it this time and I did not heat the stone prior to application; come to think of it, I did not heat the chrysocolla when I tried to stabilize that either (but I did clean it that time and also but the opticon on the stone and then under the bell jar on the vacuum table before heating).  This time, I heated the stone in the oven at 170 for 1 1/2 hours and allowed the stone to cool down in the oven, then applied the hardener and let it cure over night but not under heat.  I am going to print out this instruction and try it exactly as you have described it once more before I give up on Opticon completely...  I do have both denatured alcohol and acetone on hand.

I have to get busy on plan 'B' for my contest entry too.
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ScarlettoSara
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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2010, 06:49:06 am »

Dang Gina I know that is heartbreaking.
It is a magnificent cab too. The colors are dynamite. And the shape, WOW, really dramatic and interesting.
I still love it  even with the flaws.
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Mark
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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2010, 08:30:24 am »

Gina that just sucks.  Really.  I have had it happen more times than i care to remember.  I started using luke warm water to cab instead of whatever came out of the cold faucet, which in MA can be really freaking cold.  I have had a lot less bogus fractures and chips since then. 

I think that part of the problem you are having with the sealing of the fractures, is due in part to the type of stone.  I find that Hotstuff (super glue) works best for me on hard stones like Agate.  Heating from the bottom of the cab to pull the sealer in deep, should also help.  Some people use vacuum chambers to pull the sealant in.  I have had my best luck with Hotstuff and just so so with Opticon.  I had Opticon that didn't ever harden and i had to scrape it off, but a lot of people have great luck with it.

That is still a really nice cab.

Mark
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Michael S Hoover - Redrummd
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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2010, 09:06:53 am »

Hxtal does not require careful measuring.  I would mix four drops for this job.  I pull the drops out with a plastic toothpick.  I pull 3 drops of the resin first and turn the toothpick and pull one of the hardener.  I use the toothpick to mix and apply.  If you have a vacuuum chamber - it does help to put the stone in the chamber after applying the Hxtal.   Air in the crack can migrate out and be replaced with Hxtal.   I would put under vacuum for an hour or two and then pressurize to ambient pressure to push the Hxtal into any voids that originally had air.  Repeat overnight for a 2nd shot at getting it in deeper.

Put the remainder of the Hxtal in a freezer in case the stone sucks up the original application and you need to add a 2nd layer the next day.  It will be thicker after sittting in the freezer but it will still flow and bond with the first day's application.

I do not use Hxtal to stabilize - It is far too expensive!
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