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Study of Curvature and Uniformity - One More 07/10 (pic HEVEEEE)

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3rdRockFromTheFun
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« on: July 01, 2012, 02:13:04 pm »

First of all I should say that this piece was entirely inspired by Helene's (Lapidary / Gemstone Community Forum) opalite KCC entry a few contests ago. You know, it drove me nearly insane trying to figure out not only what she had done exactly (hard to be certain, for me anyway, from the pics posted), but how.

To make matters more difficult I have only two flat laps - not a real deal wheel in site here. I had been practicing agate twists a bit (more on that in a later post) in an attempt to give more depth to flat lapped cabs, given they have the 'concave handicap', and when I saw Helene's cab something snapped in my head and I set out on a mission to at very least study curvature and lines (reflected lines will rat you out every time if your curves lack uniformity) - my weakest area when it comes to basic flat lap cabbing.

Also, having been enthralled as a child at the concept of 'The Moebius Strip', a surface with only one side; perhaps the only human way I know of to catch a very blurry, but tangible, emulation of infinity that one can hold in their hand, I had been thinking it would be neat to make a cab that, I hope anyway, captured some of the essence of that thrill I felt over those silly pasted together strips of paper.

While this surface, the parallel of the surface of the strip, does not connect it's terminal points, everything else in between is ground in one swath (has one side) over and over through all of the normal steps right up to polishing. Tricky at best as it's difficult to hold one's hand steady over a flat lap while turning in 90 degree increments, going over curves etc.

I am still knee deep in this study and hope to post more results, some I hope as stark - others frankly boring but some not too bad cabs have resulted thus far - but for now here is the first one I started with.

I hope this wasn't too boring or dry but for anyone wondering, I have not been behind the school smoking cigarettes with the girls for the past couple of weeks. No no; I have been deep in with a study of curvature and uniformity and perhaps one day I'll be making ovals that look like Krystee's water droplets (I drool at every single one of her cabs, she is such a perfectionist and so very good at all of this.

Enjoy if you're still awake and, as always, I am grateful for and very open to critique and feedback.

--

Rough Source: Catmandewe (Tony the Great) - and this was pittance compared to some of what he sent! Everyone seems to be ranting on Tony's rock, I'm one of them - he's sells only the best.

--

FRONT VIEW



BACK VIEW / SIDEWAYS TO SHOW CURVATURE



SIDE VIEW



TOP VIEW - MEETING OF PATHS (They wrap one another like clasped hands)



Let's follow the grind path - it begins with one of the clasps (see above) and ends on the other.

1 - STARTING DOWN THE TOP OF THE BACK SIDE...



2 - AROUND THE NECK...



3 - DOWN THE BACK...



4 - TO THE CURVE AT THE BASE...



5 - TURN 90 DEGREES...



6 - HEAD BACK UP THE SIDE (This frames the face)...



7 - COMPLETE THE FRAMING...



8 - TURN A FURTHER 90 DEGREES...



9 - 'ROUND THE ENTIRE FRONT...




10 - WHICH LANDS US RIGHT WHERE WE STARTED


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« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 02:19:11 pm »

Fantastic designer shape and the selection of rough is great. It will nice in a pendant. Eric.
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« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 03:31:21 pm »

Wow!!!!
That's the best roller coaster ride I've seen in years! 
Great job!!
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 04:21:41 pm »


You flat lap guys simply amaze me...........to no end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!       saved4         saved4

Excellent freeform plus, plus, plus +++++++++++++++++++++++++ omg
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« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2012, 04:54:43 pm »

Impressive.  I agree the rough is nice.  You are experimenting and I see this as only a starting point of many new designs.
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« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 05:42:51 pm »

The mobius has always fascinated me too Frank. I wanted to try to make it out of silver or copper.
This is most beautiful design and cab. You delighted me with its beauty:) Thank you:)
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 06:01:09 pm »

Wow, this is truly beautiful...

Are you sure you're not an engineer????  yes
Keep them coming..........:)

Deb  saved7
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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2012, 08:40:02 pm »

WOW, just thinking about how to run those curves gives me a headache. saved2

Way too much planing for me to copy.  shucks2

Love the way you did all that, and look at that finish, Wow, wow and wow again. yes
Perfection to a T.

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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2012, 11:22:05 pm »

Dig that side view.  yes
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2012, 11:43:00 pm »

Really nice Frank. Looks like an exciting new world opening up for you.
 I've been toying with a Mobius design for a while now and am feeling ready to tackle it but haven't fully settled the final design or stone choice.
 Its a very nice piece of Agate you chose
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« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2012, 12:09:51 am »

Thanks everybody, you certainly know how to lift a person's enthusiasm and boost the old spirit to plunge forth! I'm grateful to you!

pete - fwiw you wouldn't be viewing this had it not been for your own work - you really shifted my gears with your lensed pendant - got me thinking in completely different ways.

Incredible to think how many of YOU all are in this piece, and again I say, I am grateful to you!
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« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2012, 03:56:31 am »

That's is amazing Frank, really special even for this forum. Very impressed, con't wait to see the next one.

David
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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2012, 07:49:27 am »

Wow Frank, that's killer!  You done Krystee proud -- even got her patented shine.   yippie
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2012, 08:25:46 am »

Wow Frank, that's killer!  You done Krystee proud -- even got her patented shine.   yippie

That's about the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me - thank you! yes
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« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 11:52:47 am »

That is very good design Frank, i believe it needs a hard work for just a single cab...i was made a twisted cabs a  bit different than yours, always thinking out of the box to get new design......impressive done  hatsoff
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2012, 07:37:15 am »

PURITY vs AESTHETICS

Initially I cabbed a piece following some very strict guidelines. Primarily that the entire cab be essentially one face and that it be cabbed with each grind being one single swath across that face. Secondly I'd wanted there to be something special about it apart from the study - that the face be framed in some manner than might, in some universe by some person at very least, be seen as relevant to Helene's opalite cab where she ran a grind around it to create a sort of peeled away framing effect (or so that's how I saw it - and was terrifically impressed by it).

Pretty rigid.

Taking the results of that piece and free-forming a cab without any rules other than the abstract 'it should look kind of the similar' I cut another piece as a more expressive image of 'that shape'. I ground it in mirror image of the first to satisfy the rock, a piece of orbed Bruneau Jasper I received from Sir Tony (catmandewe). Here are the results:

FRONT



BACK - I thought I had a min-reflection shot of this - can't find it...



TOP



BOTTOM



RIGHT SIDE



LEFT SIDE



NOTE - This is the most translucent piece of Bruneau I have ever seen - wow!



I'm not sure how well I did, in concept, but if you consider what it is that makes you like some cabs and dislike others I think you know what I'm talking about when I say "there's just something about that shape...". I don't think I'll be going 'Close Encounters' anytime soon and shaping my mashed potatoes like this, or any other cab, but we seem to connect strongly to simple geometries and to both sharp/straight lines and smooth graceful curves. Since those lines and curves are what I am trying to find resolution with in all of this, and with shapes like this - I can at least I did my best for now.
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2012, 08:41:02 am »

Frank it is very soothing and very beautiful. I can tell any stone you are cabbing now has great and deep meaning to you and I like to think about what you are thinking about when you create them.
Like the mobius and now this one too. Everyone has layers that must be peeled back before the real person is revealed. And this stone is perfect representation of that process.
Too bad I am just an onion instead of a beautiful rock:)
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2012, 09:58:17 am »

 yes yes yes  you framed it at its best......i almost always made a non standard geometrical cabs, followed what is slabs "need to be" and let its nature of beauties came up.
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2012, 03:06:49 pm »

Frank it is very soothing and very beautiful. I can tell any stone you are cabbing now has great and deep meaning to you and I like to think about what you are thinking about when you create them.
Like the mobius and now this one too. Everyone has layers that must be peeled back before the real person is revealed. And this stone is perfect representation of that process.
Too bad I am just an onion instead of a beautiful rock:)


But you're the most lovely onion I have ever had the pleasure of knowing   --,-`@  <-- supposed to be a rose dunno
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« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2012, 03:59:46 pm »

I love it:) Did you have it in your pocket all day my Sweet One:)
I am Vidalia Onion from Georgia, I taste like an apple:) LOL
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« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2012, 06:39:01 pm »


Frank that is one "gosh awful" cab and material, both are outta sight.  Superb polish and design in every aspect....... acamerashot              acamerashot

Don
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« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2012, 08:15:51 pm »

I love it:) Did you have it in your pocket all day my Sweet One:)
I am Vidalia Onion from Georgia, I taste like an apple:) LOL

Hah hah! Oh my *blush*!
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« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2012, 09:35:43 pm »

NO NO NO ....lolololololololololol
NO........
LOLOLOL
Gawd you made me blush too. LOLOLOLOLOL
Holds sides cause they are hurting from laffing...LOLOLOL
LOLOLOLOL/./././././././.
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« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2012, 07:23:27 am »

THE TWIST

In my first post I said I would get back to the agate twist. Let's talk about that.

Several months ago, right after I got my first flat lap and had done a few basic shapes, I got kind of discouraged because I was unable to do concave surfaces. You'd be surprised at just how much of a limitation that is.

Still, there are things that can be done on a flat lap that almost defy one's sense of physics while actually in the act. Sure - a twist - no big deal. But when you're sliding a curly thing around on your flat lap and it's 'fitting' - well, kinda cool.

Here's one I did using the waterline portion of a waterline agate:


SIDE - SKINNY



END A



END B



END ON





SIDE - FAT



BACKLIT



Probably the most important thing I learned is that 45 degrees yields the most visually 'twisted' cab in appearance:




Any lesser degree and the twist is difficult to see. Any more than that and it loses the look of a twist and looks like you just cabbed a rod with two different directions of heads/tail on it.

And so I call it a 1/8th twist (1/8th == 360d / 45d). It's obviously not a new concept so there's probably already a name for it but I had to call it something.

--

For those with flat laps who might be interested - here's the pattern (are you sitting?):



That's a SiC honing stick - it's larger than the agate slice I started with and the lines are much easier to see on it. Otherwise it's the exact shape of the agate I started with for the twist shown. The pattern on the other side looks identical. The lines running down the sides mate to the lines crossing diagonally over the ends.

You have to visualize an imaginary plane running through the rectangle from the lines on one side to the lines on the other - like a sheet of paper slicing through it. Then you remove all stock save for a few millimeters on either side of that plane, round it off and presto - twist. You'll end up with a 1/4 twist - cabbing a 1/8th twist is not so terrible once you do a few of these but it's not that intuitive straight away so I recommend the 1/4 twist pattern to begin with. Slice it in half and you get two 1/8th twists.

As you cut be sure and keep the entire thing parallel to your lapping surface. When you're finished the entire thing sits flat (though the offset weight will pull it to one side). Another way of think of it is to pretend that you're making it inside of a tube and that it fits the tube at both ends and middle at all times (which it would).

--

This came to mind when I was going over curvature and uniformity of lines and, as you can see, it's quite curvacious. See how uniformly the light follows that curvature at all points? This is important to me - big time. I think nothing distracts and disappoints me more than planar disparity in reflections (ripples and bumps and skews...) coming from a cab I've made. Especially when I bang my head against the wall trying to get those reflections to look right - because they are literally a reflection coming off a surface that distorts them according to the uniformity of that surface.

What's that you say...? Ridges? ...
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« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2012, 07:47:21 am »

I just got my agate burnisher out of my desk drawer, for some reason my dirty rotten cat loves to swat it around and I am afraid he will break it. It is pretty dang interesting too Frank. First of all it is smooth as silk. Then it has  unusual shape as it increases smaller to larger. Then one end is smoothed around and other end is cut at angle. Then within stone it has  some of the Iris effect and some stripes and swirls and it fades from one color to another and on one end I just noticed there is a fire prism:) I think I will try to make it into a pin/brooch like you wear on kilts or capes:) I dont have any capes or kilts but I am saying it needs a place of honor:) I love it Frank and it is very special to me. Thank you.
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« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2012, 08:07:36 am »

Well aren't you sweet - you're very welcome!

I have to say, one thing I'm blessed with is local access to some really awesome agate at a very modest price (just have to dig through heaps of stuff to find it - and I do!) And my favorite is pieces like that - discarded by people making bigger headier things I suppose.
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« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2012, 08:20:03 am »

Frank I agree that Tony has a lot of really great rough!

This cab is quite beautiful!  The curves inspire awe.   ura
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« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2012, 09:01:17 am »

I studying this project carefully.....i found that you got a very interesting method and standard (high one) to make an extraordinary cab or it can be also call a special long bead with a flat lap, it is hard to fitting all twisted side with a flat lap......i'm thinking about a different pressure to each end is needed to "twist" this agate by flat lap, i never found any like this, it is original Frank......newcomer can't do this at first or second try.  hatsoff
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« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2012, 09:17:10 am »

I studying this project carefully.....i found that you got a very interesting method and standard (high one) to make an extraordinary cab or it can be also call a special long bead with a flat lap, it is hard to fitting all twisted side with a flat lap......i'm thinking about a different pressure to each end is needed to "twist" this agate by flat lap, i never found any like this, it is original Frank......newcomer can't do this at first or second try.  hatsoff
Thanks Daniel!

This is really just my story of how difficult it is for me, a newbie at all of this, to find uniform curves and lines in more standard patterns (ovals, for example). It's very frustrating and so I study this (and everyone elses cabs) to try and get better at it, but in the meantime I try to find ways of making cabs that are sort of find their own curves almost formulaically. This way I can feel at least not so sub-par to others here who make such incredible cabs and carvings, and at the same time I hope maybe I can come up with my own unique style.

Nothing shown here is difficult other than explaining some of it and trying to decipher my explanations - but truly these things are cake compared to something like a Krystee oval that looks like a drop of water (my mouth falls open everytime I see one!) or your own amazing cabs!

Thank you for your kind words!
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« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2012, 11:31:43 am »

Noooo.....You underestimated your self Frank.....as i told you non experience cabbers can't do this easily in first or second try, this is your passion and your style i really saw that, not just another good words to encourage some one, this is real one!

I teached many cabbers in Indonesia, and i know wich one is good, First is passion to create a new or a best one, second to last is to improve everything his/her got, you can not improved anything if don't have any passion.

I simulated what you did in my mind and just realized how difficult it is, you need your hand dinamicaly smooth and strong moved side by side to got all side fit on a flat perfectly (i'm still not mention about polishing).....and I believed you already now how to use or improve this one as your own specific cabs style.

This twisted cab can be use for nice pendat, its flow twisted area has good performance to show the maximum beauty of material wich is can't show by other style, and if you can go to smaller size it would be perfect for bead, and bead can be use in large variaties of jewelries. yes
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« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2012, 01:25:35 pm »

Daniel - I do believe you and it's very flattering because I know you know what you are talking about and I have seen your excellent work! But, it is still the truth that I am a new to this and it is still the truth that I have a very hard time with shapes like ovals. I work very hard on them an most of the time I can pass, but barely - it is difficult for me. But, if I do enough ovals I will get better! (I hope! chuckle )

Also, I know how well I have done or how interesting (or boring) I have made something by the response it gets (or lack thereof) and I like it that way. It is good and useful feedback.

Everything is good my friend yes
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« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2012, 03:49:49 pm »

You are a natural at this stone cutting stuff Frank and dont give us any lip back. LOLOL Daniel is right the curves are not easy even if you hold two hands on the wheel and keep it between the lines:)
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« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2012, 08:35:06 pm »


I would have liked to have seen a couple more pics.

Nice work.

Nice stone.

Gary
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« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2012, 09:08:17 pm »

Hey Gary, thank you - if you click the flickr link in my sig you'll run smack into more pics of it.
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« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2012, 07:28:56 am »

I'm thinking an idea to twist a long thick bruneau with nice orbs through side to side......maybe you can try it if you have a good and suitable slab.....it will AWSOME....... ura

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« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2012, 09:11:29 am »

That's a great idea Daniel! Unfortunately I don't have any that are longer than the twist shown. That would be neat though - it would really show off  the orbs! yes

What is your next project Daniel? I am always eager to see what you make! yes
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« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2012, 09:39:35 am »

My next project will be finish "Haunted Jade" and than sets of Bruneau. I still not yet sort some rough to send to Tony, You and Helene, have been works a lot to make a jewelries (sorry i can't post any of my jewelries projects because its belong to my designers friends), and still cabbing a silc chrysocola contracted.....i should managed my extra hands (my two assistants).... yippie

As long as an agate? that would be perfect.....dendritic agate is also a good choice one with clear translucent will show off dendrites beauty......or plume may be? Plume will grow nicely from the bottom side.  yes

Thanks for being interested Frank.... ura
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« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2012, 12:37:55 pm »

I always love to see what you come up with next too Daniel:)
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« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2012, 01:31:12 pm »

Wow!  That is a stunningly beautiful cab!   Just awesome!!
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« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2012, 06:05:44 pm »

I can't wait to see your finished Haunted Jade Daniel - that is very cool and you are a REALLY excellent carver, I can tell long before it is finished even! Next project sounds interesting - please send me your assistants, heh heh - I could use the extra hands chuckle

--

pete - don't forget to post the moebius strip when you do it, it is one thing I have actually thought about carving myself but I just don't think I'm ready for much carving yet. Many times I start something and I'm just not feeling it the right way. Like quitting smoking or drinking - it has come from within or it's a failed endeavor before it begins. Anyway, I love your works - you inspire the hell out of me (thanks for getting all that hell out of me pete! heh heh - why do I go so long without sleep *sigh*)

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EAGems - thank you!! yes
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« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2012, 01:00:06 am »

Thanks Sara and Frank.........

I can't wait to see your finished Haunted Jade Daniel - that is very cool and you are a REALLY excellent carver, I can tell long before it is finished even! Next project sounds interesting - please send me your assistants, heh heh - I could use the extra hands chuckle

I can't send each of them in saperated package and one package for each is toooo big also will be difficult to handle yelling..... omg saved2 saved4 chuckle toofunny11
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« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2012, 06:12:21 pm »

Thanks Frank  Your spurred me on to settle a design and put burr to stone. I'm doing in between another project and started with a clay blank to help visualise and carve the twist.
 I can understand about it 'not feeling right'- a bit like writers block- I can go several days wondering what to do, then all of a sudden I find myself engrossed in something. Inspiration comes when not expected
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« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2012, 06:29:49 pm »

I can go several days wondering what to do, then all of a sudden I find myself engrossed in something. Inspiration comes when not expected

Exactly !  dunno You cuddle the piece for a few days, and then suddenly everything turns out right. yes
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« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2012, 02:07:57 am »

Hi Pete, I cary my work in progress carvings around in my pocket and look at them often in all different light, shows up all the lines and areas needing more work. They certainly take much more contemplation than a standard cab.
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« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2012, 07:40:57 am »

Actually I was thinking about the time after finishing a piece and before starting another.  Sometimes I've got a new project in mind (or several) and other times there's nothing  (writer's block), then when I stop thinking about it, something comes to mind (Inspiration comes when not expected).
 If I'm stuck on how to do something I'll just sit there and stare at it until I get it,  or have a break ( if family or work haven't yet called!)
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« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2012, 10:35:18 am »

CROSSING PATHS

For my final installment in this teeny bit of a study of 'Curvature and Uniformity' I wanted to show one more technique I use to add a little pizazz and curvature to a cab that would otherwise simply be a rectangle.

The technique involves crossing primary grind paths to yield the patterns that emerge at the fringes of convergence.

It's easier explained by visual demonstration, so here's a rectangular shaped obsidian cab on which I ground a path from side to side followed by a path from top to bottom. I had a hell of a time getting a picture of this until I dragged a second, out of focus, light into the mix.

THE PATTERN



THE POLISH



THE SHEEN - This is Davis Creek OB obtained from Hand-2-Mouth Mining



THE TRANSLUCENCY



To do this properly on a flat lap you must grind one direction completely followed by the other direction completely - at every grit level. I recommend polishing it that way as well.

Also, I picked a gray sheen because I happened to already have one oriented perfectly parallel to the front/back - saved me a lot of work as I wanted this to be uni-color sheen to avoid distraction, however, and the pictures doing show this, there is a distinct chatoyant quality to the material so it's a lot more exiting n real life.

Thanks for peeking in on my little world - hope the picture show was at least fun!
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« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2012, 11:22:22 am »

Perfect lines.....is my first thinking in first look, you played with symetry and precission with hands and you picked a good homogen material to did...... yes

Perfect shine....is my second, and this is actually is the most hard part of your work, prepolish lines an curves will moves again and again and need an extra carefully to kept on symetry and precission ( rectangle is the most difficult shape to precise by hand...)  yes

GREAT WORK Frank..!!!!!! hatsoff  that's all i'm thinking.
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« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2012, 01:16:22 pm »

Thanks Daniel! yes

I used my Inland with faceting discs to make the basic shape and my Ameritool diamond sander lap to pre-polish and polish it. I ran the narrow side (with ends facing to my left and right) at the south end of the disc and the long side (with ends facing up and down) on the east side of the disc - this way all grind and polishing cutting was in the same direction - makes it MUCH easier to work and polish.

Yes, I've been doing several of these and am finding rectangles are harder than they look! Always wants to be one side not quite right and sometimes it's hard to even figure out where the problem is! But for me - still easier than ovals chuckle

Oh, and the polish I had to do twice. First with felt and 14K diamond - very hazy. Next I tried cloth with 14K diamond - all better!

[For Polishing] I want to take about a foot of wooden dowel, run a hole in each end (just long enough for something to grip it at both sides), then hook it to a frame to hold it steady (using bearings) and run it with the motor from a hand drill that goes very very slow. I have all the parts - just need to do it.

The dowel is only about an inch in diameter - maybe 1.5" (I have several - using the largest) and it's a soft wood (which may be a problem, not sure). It's the same material I use to cut grinding and polishing wheels from for carving.

Anyway - have you ever seen or heard of anything like this (a dowel - not just a wheel - I've seen wooden wheels) and if so how well did it work?

Thanks!
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« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2012, 02:39:55 pm »

Frank. This one bought me to my knees. When I first started thinking about carving this is what I had in back of my mind. Just a little caressing of the stone to make it feel like a cat being stroked.
It is very beautiful. And it shows great love for the rock:)
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« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2012, 03:54:44 pm »

You need to get a writing a book Sara bear, you always say the perfect things - how do you do that!?

<3
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« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2012, 04:14:27 pm »

 omg

Gobsmacked!!
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« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2012, 05:18:39 pm »

Aww Frank you are so sweet to say that.  But I dont think I could write a book, I dont like to use punctuations or capitals:) 
I say what I feel and these words are what your creation did to me:)
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« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2012, 07:51:48 pm »

NO WAY!!!!!!

I saw the title of this thread and thought it was a carving thread (don't do carvings so I view them after cab threads...., but been busy and haven't viewed all of the threads at all lately  saved5  I remember seeing a portion of this but never locked on to the name of the thread)

OMG FRANK!!!!!!!!

(*Cough cough....*gasp... *clearing throat....*cough cough..... *gag)

Gagged because I missed this post.....

You are AMAZING!!!!  I need to pm you so that you can teach me to do what you so flawlessly do!!!

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« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2012, 07:54:13 pm »

Since a little birdie told me you are his Heroine Krystee I know he will appreciate the praise of your words immensely:)
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« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2012, 02:54:44 am »

Thanks! These are not that hard really. I ran across this method by accident when I made that little black rectangle (I think we all agreed it's probably morrisonite?) for a KCC awhile back.

But thanks!
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« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2012, 09:46:26 am »


Anyway - have you ever seen or heard of anything like this (a dowel - not just a wheel - I've seen wooden wheels) and if so how well did it work?

Thanks!
I never seen a dowel use for polishing.....but i'm sure it works great, woods is good for diamond polishing either its soft or hard depand on what we need, i like your idea to use a wood dowel to polish, i must try this.... yippie
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« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2012, 02:07:23 pm »

I think I will give it a try also Daniel. I just need to figure out what kind of tray/trough to put under it. Plastic tub probably but I have a lot of panes of nicely frosted glass (from grinding flats chuckle ) that I hate throwing away so maybe I'll get out the silicon caulk and make a tray (something else for me to step on dunno )

If I get it together successfully I'll post pictures in a new thread. If you don't see that you can assume it went badly. bricks
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« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2012, 06:57:44 am »

I think I will give it a try also Daniel. I just need to figure out what kind of tray/trough to put under it. Plastic tub probably but I have a lot of panes of nicely frosted glass (from grinding flats chuckle ) that I hate throwing away so maybe I'll get out the silicon caulk and make a tray (something else for me to step on dunno )

If I get it together successfully I'll post pictures in a new thread. If you don't see that you can assume it went badly. bricks
Lol, i never consider that idea.......i have a lot  saved4
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« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2012, 09:23:21 am »

I keep thinking I should make a light box from that frosted glass. I want to find out where to get some clear plastic with a large grid on it. I would love to be able to insert that into a light box and photograph the reflection of it in polished stone - the grid should show exactly how the curves flow. That project is not even going on a todo list - it's going on the 'I hope somebody else does that' list dunno

I did make a prototype of the polisher (stuck a thin dowel in the drill, applied 14K diamond powder in olive oil then turned the drill on, lol...) It actually does work but I had to turn the drill up to max speed (a whopping 900rpms) or I would have been there forever. I found one problem - it produces a wavery polish somewhat like a thin felt wheel on a dremel tool. The surface area is so small it can't contact enough to give an even polish on all materials I tried. Thinking maybe I just better skip the dowel and go right to a larger round of wood (the size of an expando or something like that). I don't know - that was kind of discouraging but I don't want to give up too easy...
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« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2012, 10:11:15 am »

Hmm, are you trying to polish carved one? if yes, i think you go the right way, the most important is sanding.....i always make sure that i did sanding ( with abreasive paper rolled on mandrel ) right and as perfect as i can. Usually, its already shined with 360 and 1000, colours is already nice...and than i took my bamboo stick ( i'm sure dowel/wood is fine becaause i had try with very soft wood ) with diamond powder and oil, it would fastly shined. Last step is i put cosmetic cotton on bamboo with higest grid diamond i have.

If you trying to polish a cab, i'm sure for the last step you only need cotton on your wood stick with diamond powder and oil, or diamond paste. I'm thinking about too much presure or need more speed, i used 20.000 rpm or for the last 30.000 rpm without presure. Sometime i used this method to repolish my cab.

Note: When polish with thin wood or bamboo, i need to moved my hand quick and dynamicaly. More hard stick, i need more dynamic in my hand (i used stainlessteel stick also) and it must good centered.
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« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2012, 10:25:12 am »

Hmm, are you trying to polish carved one? if yes, i think you go the right way, the most important is sanding.....i always make sure that i did sanding ( with abreasive paper rolled on mandrel ) right and as perfect as i can. Usually, its already shined with 360 and 1000, colours is already nice...and than i took my bamboo stick ( i'm sure dowel/wood is fine becaause i had try with very soft wood ) with diamond powder and oil, it would fastly shined. Last step is i put cosmetic cotton on bamboo with higest grid diamond i have.

If you trying to polish a cab, i'm sure for the last step you only need cotton on your wood stick with diamond powder and oil, or diamond paste. I'm thinking about too much presure or need more speed, i used 20.000 rpm or for the last 30.000 rpm without presure. Sometime i used this method to repolish my cab.

Note: When polish with thin wood or bamboo, i need to moved my hand quick and dynamicaly. More hard stick, i need more dynamic in my hand (i used stainlessteel stick also) and it must good centered.

I did cabs, all prepolished to a pretty decent shine already. I think you are right about the speed is part of the problem - 900rpm is slow, but I like the idea because if I can get it to work I can try courser grits which fly off the stick on me when I use a dremel even at it's lowest speed.

I can't wait for you polishing post - I hope you include all of this information so I can print it out and put it in my book (yes, I have a book of all the really good stuff I read online and here at the forum). I had good luck with bamboo for polishing what pete calls a lense (If memory serves) effect. Just a ball bur halfway or less into a surface followed by bamboo dressed with a round tip and grit (some things I seem to have to use 600 then 14K diamond grit - other things I can go straight to 14K). I have a good example but I don't want to show it yet because it's part of a surprise I'm working on and I still have quite a ways to go. But the dishes/lenses polish very nicely - like real lenses almost.

I did not try the cotton. I have several ideas for that (cotton sleeve, felt, carpet and a few others just to test - but first I have to stay simple or nothing will happen at all except I will look at it and say - okay someday  saved1 )

Thanks for all your input Daniel - it's encouraging to me - helps keep me on track.
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« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2012, 05:58:15 pm »

Frank, don't be discouraged by your experiments because it's showing that each tool you make has its own specific application. The waviness you, referred to also happens with Nova points if you try to sand too large an area.  Generally I try to use the largest tool that will fit the area.  Waviness can also be caused by chattering of the burr. with word burrs it's easy to keep them dressed with sandpaper.
 I'd have some reservations about a large wooden spinning disc.  It needs to be very accurately made to avoid bumping issues, which means made on a lathe, and with no crossing of the wood grain ie either all end grain or all side grain otherwise the side grain will wear quicker causing flat spots on the wheel. The other thing is the drill is not designed for the  side loads caused by using the periphery of the wheel.
 Anyway, food for thought
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« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2012, 07:23:13 am »

Thanks pete - I'm not giving up yet. Yes this is a $10 drill (Walmart) - not even sure the motor is designed for forward load chuckle but I'll keep hacking away at it between my newly-found mission of carving out a style for myself (which is coming along surprisingly well - and it's based largely on the pieces you see in this thread).
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« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2012, 08:10:42 am »

I'm not sure when i will post my polishing method because my very little time.....almost full 12 hours a day with jewelries project now to get finish in time, but sure i will.... yes
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« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2012, 11:36:09 am »

Hope you make enough money to come see us Daniel here in the States. Why work all that hard if you don't get some benes.. (benefits).
Please post what you are designing as I love to see what delights you are creating.
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« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2012, 12:47:31 pm »

Well......it is my gratitude too my very best friend and also my partner who's suported me totally, he helped me so much, i can't go far in lapidary without supported by him. Unfortunately i can't post this one, designs belongs to Italian designer who gave my best friend and me trust and order.

I don't want to take any profit from this project because he already gave me......he insisted to give me additional money but i'm more insisted to not.
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« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2012, 01:44:22 pm »

Your customer sounds like he/she appreciates you very much Daniel.  And I do too:) I think you are wonderful:)
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« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2012, 03:48:01 pm »

OKAY - ONE MORE

This is a piece of Montana agate that is nicely botryoidal and has a fortification formation with a tiny corner of waterline banding within. NOTE: This is not Iris Agate - any colors you see in the banding are artifacts such as colors behind the piece or lensing of the light due to curvature of the psuedo-facets (I believe that's what you call those?). Trust me - I spend a lot of time going through all of my agate looking carefully for the iris effect - thus far no joy.

This is actually the third permutation of this piece, a free-form worry-stone I initially made by hand with diamond files and sandpaper. That rendition had mud-like inclusions (the ones that look like little floating islands) that I left half exposed on the fringes. Bad move - fractures began forming around the exposed portions of the inclusions and were heading inward. Next I simply shrunk it, carving out the inclusions, but never got around to polishing it.

I was looking at the turtle back lensing yesterday and an idea struck - most likely because I've had this pseudo-faceting on the brain lately.

It is in need of re-polishing. Again - trust me - there are lots of small scratches on it's surface. For some reason they don't seem to show (or not so much anyway) in the pictures, so - I figured I'd go ahead and post some as this is what'll look like in person when it is re-polished.

UPDATE 1: Almost forgot to include the grind paths used to make this - that was kind of the whole point.

UPDATE 2: This was done, except for the polish which was done with a dremel and 14K diamond, on a combination of hard and soft flat laps (faceting discs followed by diamond sanding discs).

0



Looks like a fish to me - you?

1 FRONT-LIT



2



3



4 BACK-LIT



5



And I just now found a picture of this piece when it was in transition from form 1 to 2 - notice a size difference? Well now it's a cab! chuckle

6



Thanks for looking!
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« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2012, 04:49:31 pm »

Frank, it has much charm. I really like the back lit pictures and the designs within the stone is very interesting.
Yet another notch in your bedpost.....(freudian slip)... I meant your gun belt:)
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« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2012, 05:03:57 pm »

Thanks Sarita - would you believe I tripped and fell and that thing came plopping out of my forehead!?
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« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2012, 05:11:40 pm »

LOLOLOL Yes I believe in magic:) LOLOLOL
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« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2012, 08:21:47 pm »

my newly-found mission of carving out a style for myself (which is coming along surprisingly well - and it's based largely on the pieces you see in this thread).

Surprisingly????  saved2 I think not!

Its your impeccable planing and quest for precision that got you stand out results.
As said before, I can't wrap my mind around your creations and do the usual thing of trying it out too. And this is exactly what makes it so fascinating. I don't often write in this tread, simply because you consistently render me speechless.

Way to go Frank, you found your niche, and have become a technical stand out artist. For that, you are one of those people we come back every day to the forum, eagerly awaiting to see more.

In closing; the shield is absolutely wonderful, I envy you for your precision.  eyes1
 
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« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2012, 08:54:18 pm »

Thanks Kurt! It's nowhere near as precise as I'd like (I know you get that - hard to satisfy oneself) but it's definitely the hardest of this type I've done yet. If you can believe it, my kcc entry took me twice as long (damn rounded edges... I WILL get the hang of that if it kills me!)

Anyway, I'm grateful for the kind words yes
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« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2012, 07:53:51 am »

Another great design and well done Frank......you have very much interesting new concept. This is new cab designs for real jewelry designers. I enjoying your concepts Frank.....this last cab i'm sure its need an artistic eye and good hands to make it....only this way one can make it and no chance for industrialize/ fabrication in this type so people has no chance to undervalue. You did what it wanna be....." you talked well with your fortifications agate "  hatsoff hatsoff hatsoff
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« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2012, 09:00:55 am »

Thanks Daniel! yes
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« Reply #75 on: May 05, 2014, 12:05:35 pm »

Quite a wonderful job for a starter! I'm sure you'll get good as you continue practicing.
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« Reply #76 on: May 05, 2014, 01:35:27 pm »

I miss Frank's witty humor.
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« Reply #77 on: May 05, 2014, 06:07:19 pm »

I miss Frank's witty humor.

Me too.. saved5
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« Reply #78 on: May 05, 2014, 06:44:20 pm »

Lithicbeads posted a couple months ago about this when I asked where Frank was.  According to him our Frank found himself a lady friend, so he's been occupied. 
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« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2014, 01:57:48 pm »

I miss Frank's witty humor.

Me too.. saved5

Me TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO shucks2
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